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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it really is better going through life as a pessimist?

49 replies

GordonTheGopher · 17/09/2008 19:34

I've been thinking about this over the last two days. I had a miscarriage yesterday. I was only 5 weeks so physically it was bearable. It's still going on today.

I had about 5 minutes of crying then I got on with my day as normal. I just knew it was going to go wrong. I had made no plans, no pointless conversations about possible names... I just thought I would assume it was going to end rather than thinking it was going to be successful, then I wouldn't be too sad about it going wrong.

I do this throughout my life, thinking the worst, then I'm never disappointed, but if something goes right I'm pleasantly surprised.

Is this a sad way to view life? I don't think so. If I'd have thought this pregnancy was going to succeed and got excited about it, I would have been completely devastated yesterday.

This isn't a 'woe is me' thread and I'm not asking for your sympathy. I thought I'd find out if you see yourselves as pessimists or optimists, and what the pros and cons are of each standpoint!

OP posts:
francagoestohollywood · 17/09/2008 20:32

I think it is very important to work on pretending you are, zippi.
I think I do it too at times, but not convinced enough.

I like cheerful people. I am cheerful, but also a pessimist. Is this possible, you think?

IfYouDidntLaughYoudCry · 17/09/2008 21:55

I'm a cynical optimist. But I really make an effort to be cheerful (but not annoyingly so) when around others. I can't stand miserable people. I have had some awful times in my life and I'm sorry for your experience but cynical on inside, optimist on outside is te way to be!

morningpaper · 17/09/2008 21:59

Sorry to hear your news Gophe but it is an interesting debate! Although it feels inappropriate on your thread.

I am a pessimist but amazingly cheery all the time because every day that I'm not ill/poor/living in Ethiopia I'm just deliriously happy, and DH is an optimist but spends all his time miserable that he hasn't won the Premium Bonds.

Szyslak · 17/09/2008 22:16

How you think really does affect how you feel.

This is why cognitive behaviour therapy works.

Depressed and anxious poeple have negative thouhgt patterns which make them feel miserable(depressed) and scared and worried about all the bad things that are probably going to happen(anxious, often hugely so.)

These thoughts are atomatic and have become a 'habit' and automatic pettern of thinking. This is why poeple believe you are either just a pesimist or an optimist.

In fact you can change your patterns of thinking and get out of a negative cycle that you beieve is 'just you', and poeple who do, report feeling better, happier and less anxious.

Take you example of miscarriage:

Two peopel find they are preganant. The optinist is happy and excited, aware of potential risks, but chooses not to dwell on them.

The pessimist, refuses to let herself be happy and excited and focuses on the possible negative outcomes incrasing anxiety and low mood, feelings of doom and hopelesness.

Opytimist and pessimist both have iscarriage.

Both are devasted as both really wanted thier babies. Both feel huge sense of loss.

Optmist howver begins to try and console herself with thoughts of trying again, liklihood of future success, stories of successful pregnancy and babies following miscarriage, which helps to lift her mood and lessen her anxiety about the future.

The pessimist, views miscarrage as proof that tings go wrong for her, and therefore things will probably go wrong again, so the future looks blaek, thereby creating feelings of despair and anxiety about her situation and future.

I'm noy suggetsing this is you Gordon, but just trying to illustart how pesimistic thinking realy does impact on your happiness and anxiety.

I really cannot stress this enough, I see it all the tme in my work.

Szyslak · 17/09/2008 22:20

I can actually spell better than that

MP I woould have definitely pegged you as an optimist.

Actually i think you are, if you focus on the fact that today you haven't died, rather the fact that you still might tomorrow, you are an optimist.

zippitippitoes · 17/09/2008 22:21

i have tried to teach myself this

i asm having a psychiatric assessment a week on monday for anxiety classes and individual therapy

as i think it is a life skill i really would benefit from

and something to fall back on when things are hard

morningpaper · 17/09/2008 22:27

zippi go for it, it is a very mature thing to do to

I'm not saying you are ancient you understanding

Yes Syzlak I do focus on the deliriously happy twist of fate that I DON'T have bird-flu TODAY so skip around all day in glee

Whereas my mother some people are just sitting around worrying about the bird flu that will undoubtedly strike tomorrow

Szyslak · 17/09/2008 22:33

If you have aready been working on it yourself then I bet you will respond really well, and even more quickly than you imagine, to some therapy Zippi.

It is definitely a life skill, that once you have learnt how to recognise, control and change negative patterns, you can apply to all sorts of areas of your life, at all sorts of differnt times.

I am generally optimistic, not depressive or overly anxius, but I still use the techniques on myself all the time, when I become aware of myself getting things out of proportion (see current thread on Ds's IEP) or veiwing things negatively.

If anxiety is yor main issue, do tyr to push for CBT, it really is so effective with anxiety, and if you're already aware of the ideas and trying to use them, you're half way there, and with a bit of support you'll crack it.

Tiramissu · 17/09/2008 22:34

Zippy,
there is an excellent book that therapists use for their clients in cognitive therapy.
It is called 'Mind over Mood' . it s about changing the way you think

Tiramissu · 17/09/2008 22:35

sorry,
is Zippi and not Zippy

Szyslak · 17/09/2008 22:37

See, Mp I knew you were an optimist really!

Intersting idea...just from their MN postings who are the optinists and pessimists??
I reckon you coud probably quite accurately guess.

I mean, LL being a boundless optimist is hardly news is it?

zippitippitoes · 17/09/2008 22:38

i think mine will show that i have mood swings lol

squilly · 17/09/2008 22:43

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. Now is not likely to be an optimistic time in your life.

I was a complete pessimist as a kid; came from a rough estate, big family, mum didn't want me (I was the youngest of 6) and made it blatantly apparent.

I went through a suicidal phase after hefty bouts of bullying and I honestly believed I couldn't get on with anyone...women in particular as I seemed to clash with just about every woman I met!

Then...to my surprise, things improved. I made a couple of good friends and became cautiously optimistic. This developed into hideously extreme optimism which remains with me to this day.

It's helped me through 4 miscarriages; several difficult jobs and the rearing of one lovely 7 year old.

Having done both sides, optimism and pessimism, I'd say the optimism is the best way for things to be. It's hard to change your nature...but I read lots on psychology and positive thinking and I'm definitely happier now.

Same old crap happens...I just use it on my roses!!! (Or I would if I grew roses...as it is, I grow grass, which doesn't seem to need any encouragement at all to grow!)

Take care of yourself now. It's a hard time, regardless of how 'well' you appear to be taking it. And don't beat yourself up if you end up upset about it months from now. Sometimes miscarriage blues can creep up on you at the most unexpected of moments.

SmugColditz · 17/09/2008 22:45

I used to be a real optimist, but I realised the other day that I see all men as walking piles of dirty washing, so I can't be that optimistic, can I !

squilly · 17/09/2008 23:03

That's just realism smugcolditz.

EachPeachPearMum · 18/09/2008 13:42

GTG- sorry you are going through this. I am a pessimist too, though maybe I'm just a cynic.

I had an early m/c in march, and I was so upset, because whilst it hadn't developed into a baby yet, it was the loss of the dreams for that future child that hurt so much.
Don't think being optimist or pessimist has a bearing on how upsetting a m/c is tbh.

(Am 22we pg now though, so, hey!)

sadminster · 18/09/2008 14:21

I'm a realist - lots of bad things happen, mostly for no reason at all. Someone once said that it is much easier to fall off a chair than a tall building & I entirely agree, disappointments are far easier to bear if you have realistic expectations of life.

With respect to pregnancy, I never expect it to go well (8 pregnancies, 2 babies, 2 second trimester losses, 1 grave to visit) and avoid stories of people happily conceiving & having live babies after loss because they just make me feel shit. Just because something good happens to someone else doesn't mean it will happen to me. And if someone dared to suggest that positive thinking would improve things I'd have trouble resisting the urge to throw them (or myself) out of the nearest window.

I'm a pretty happy person in most respects, but not a Pollyanna.

Ripeberry · 18/09/2008 14:25

I'm a pessimist and always have been. When crap happens i just get on with it, when good things happen i'm REALLY happy.
But then i do forget to enjoy the good times and i'm always waiting for something to "take it away".
My moto for life is "Try to do your best and grab happiness with both hands".
Maybe i watch too many movies but it's always when everything is going PERFECT that bad luck strikes, don't you think so?

OrmIrian · 18/09/2008 14:28

SO sorry Gordon

I tend to be optimistic. And whilst that can mean I get disappointed, it also means I can quite soon start to see the positives. Not to say I don't worry about the future and fret about things before they happen sometimes, but that tends to be a temporary state of affairs.

nooka · 18/09/2008 14:53

I find it interesting that many people who are pessimistic think of themselves as realists, and many optimists describe themselves as cynics.

I am happy to be an optimist. I have had a few setbacks in my life (dh's affair and losing a huge amount of our money probably being the primary one) but nothing awful to really shake my foundations, so maybe it is an easy place to be. I wasn't very happy as a child, but have had lots of validation as an adult, and am now happy with where I am at, and who I am, which allows me to ride with most things (for example moving the family to the US and then having to leave less than six months later...)

I like to use NLP thinking about other people, in that I do believe that everyone acts in what they consider the best way, even if that gets a bit twisted at times. Not thinking badly of other people helps me to be kinder to myself when I don't perform in the way I think I should. I do still brood on old wrongs, but I try my best not to.

I have also had quite a bit of counseling, which has tempered my habit of splitting into overly happy vs deeply angry patterns, so I now feel more at peace with my feelings.

Sorry about your loss GordontheGopher, my mother always told us not to get attached to our pregnancies prior to three months, but it is very hard at any point to let go of dreams of what might have been. I wonder if there was something wrong with the pregnancy (often early miscarriages happen when the embryo is not viable) and you had somehow picked this up through hormone levels or something?

nooka · 18/09/2008 14:54

I've always liked "Aim high, there's plenty of room to fall" and "he who dares rejoices" personally...

squilly · 18/09/2008 16:24

I'm with you nooka. And it's surprising to hear that you think dh's affair and losing lots of money wasn't enough to really shake your foundations. For some people, that would be enough to crush them for the rest of their lives. And that, I think, sums up the difference between the pessimist and the optimist.

For me optimism is a learned thing, to some degree, that with years of practise has become second nature.

It's always hard to be optimistic when bad stuff happens but that's when the strength of looking to the future helps too.

I hope Gordon can find some peace in planning her life in the future. Some things you can't count on (like babies...I learned that the hard way!) but you can make contingency plans. I've always found having something to look forward to helpful as well...a holiday a meal out, even something small. Just helps me deal with any crap that's occurring.

nooka · 18/09/2008 17:16

Actually I think living for today is a good way to be positive about life. The world is so beautiful that it is easy (for me anyway) to find solace in the here and now by looking around me. Sorry that sounds so trite, but I do think it is fundamentally true. I remember an old lady I knew who had been in solitary confinement in Siberia telling me how she survived it by looking at the sky whenever she could and I've always found that inspiring (she was the most fantastically grumpy old lady too though!) dh, on the other hand, who is more prosaic then me (and generally less optimistic) is inspired by films and music, most recently by Ferris Bueller's day off "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it"

DrNortherner · 18/09/2008 17:21

Sorry to hear about your m/c GTG

I am an optomist and dh is a pessimist. In general, I am happier han him. He can moan about anything and everyhing, and at times, he can be a pain in the arse to live with

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