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AIBU?

to think mothers who stop contact with their fathers for no good reason other than they need to control are sad jealous manipulative f*ckers who need to get a grip and move and stop giving every other mother who have moved on a bad name

229 replies

jojostar · 10/09/2008 18:39

it makes me so mad AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH

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misi · 15/09/2008 22:44

Twinklemegan I would do anything to maintain contact with my son and I do, at the moment I am driving 600 miles each week to collect and return him, exp refuses to drive even though its in the latest court order) this equates to approx 12 hours driving each week. when I first separated from my sons mother, I was cut out of his life because she could do so and the law was on her side, I was threatened with kidnap charges if I tried to re-establish the status quo of me being main (full time) carer. I was told by my solicitor that I would find it difficult to get him back if mother did not want it. around this time, my house I owned before I met my ex was given to her, my job in my own business was taken away from me as her and her family owned 51% and obviously I lost my business too but the crafty basards refused to buy me out or take away the personal guarantees so when the business was bankrupted, I got left with the debts amounting to £60k at the moment and rising £5k every 3 months this means I am likely to loose my house I live in now along with everything* else including the shared residence order as I will not have a (2nd) home for my son. I got through that original turmoil and confounded the solicitors by getting shared res. this time around with her moving far away, probably loosing a second house to that bitch, having to pay her for the pleasure, paying off all her debts and a few other things I won't mention, I did honestly consider ending it all a few months back. it wasn't running away from responsibilities or protecting myself, it was sheer and utter despair. it honestly went through my mind my son would be better off without all this crap going on. he does not like living with his mum, he wants to live with me and tells me and her all the time (thats part of the problem, jealous as hell she is) but as I am unlikely to get anything out of this latest court battle except reduced contact and more debt and an increasingly harmed son, I thought that if I ended it all he would be better off in the long run as she would be happy at last I was out of the picture. to add to that, my insurances would pay off all the debts and everyone would be better off.

then a woman I hardly knew slapped me one day (metaphorically) she made me realise that my mum would probably give up too which would then deprive my nieces and nephews of a thier nanny as well as me thier uncle (my nieces and nephews are like my own and spend lots of time here and they call my son their brother not cousin), my son would be trapped forever with his mum, and the list goes on.
it is hard to carry on for the sake of the children no matter how much is thrown at you knowing that often you start so far back on the starting grid that you really don't have a chance (legally in our family court rooms), it is hard to carry on when you know your ex is laughing at you because all she has to do is go to the police and make up some pathetic allegation and you are stuffed again until you can manage to clear your name months down the line. I would much rather be 'lumbered' with my son 24/7/365 than to be in the position I have been in and many fathers are in at the moment (I don't mean that as any form of denegration xenia against lone mothers whose ex's have buggered off) and this is not a mental problem, it is often the result of utter futility. I do know and understand some fathers can be drama queens as mothers can be too, it is the system that allows this and promotes it. without solicitors telling my ex what she could do, (be as confrontational as possible which makes cases longer so means more money for them) I doubt my son would have gone through any of this crap and the situation may have been so much better (possibly with one less bankrupt business too)

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LittleBella · 15/09/2008 22:54

oh I don't think anyone's going to argue with you that the system is crap misi.

Mediation which couples are forced to go to when they get divorced is rubbish. A lot more quality counselling, parenting courses and genuine support to re-educate both parents about how to genuinely put the needs of their children above their own feelings of hurt, anger, betrayal, pain etc. etc., would be a very Good Thing but it won't happen because in the short term, it would cost too much. In the long term of course it would save the state a fortune in the social costs of children growing up in dysfunctional, battling families.

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misi · 15/09/2008 23:09

you are right littlebella, the scandinavian model of presumption of shared care on separation is a very good one and works but you need the re-education away from only one parent can look after a child properly syndrome. but there is also one big obstacle in the way at this moment. when other european countries are moving towards this shared care assumption, our government is moving away from it because of 3 women, harriet harman, anna coot and patricia hewitt. this is what the NSCFC said on harmans bid for deputy PM who now holds sway over brown as she did over blair.

WHY THE NSCFC DO NOT WANT HARRIET HARMAN TO BECOME DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER
As the Deputy Prime Minister contest hots up within the Labour Party, the National Society for Children and Family Contact (NSCFC - link) have declared that the worst possible winner for fathers and families would be Harriet Harman. Their press releases are listed here (link) and their release on this subject is listed below.

NSCFC on Harriet Harman
First it must be said that Harriet Harman is possibly the worst anti family politician to ever hold office, hence if her power and influence is increased it would be one of the saddest days for the family in particular and society in general and this despite her claims to the contrary. But why, you may well ask? Well, let us just look at the facts behind the woman and her ideology. In 1990, Harriet Harman (who became a Cabinet minister), Anna Coote (who became an adviser to Labour's Minister for Women) and Patricia Hewitt (yes, she's in the Labour Cabinet, too!) expressed their beliefs in a social policy paper called ?The Family Way?.

It said: "It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life, or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social harmony and cohesion." This in itself as Erin Pizzey founder of the first battered wives refuge said of late was a staggering attack on men and their role in modern life and in my view a forerunner of what was to come, a very subtle yet insidious agenda inflicted on families of a kind never witnesses before.

Hewitt, in a book by Geoff Dench called Transforming Men published in 1995, said: "But if we want fathers to play a full role in their children's lives, then we need to bring men into the playgroups and nurseries and the schools. And here, of course, we hit the immediate difficulty of whether we can trust men with children."

For nearly four decades, these pernicious attitudes towards family life, fathers and boys have permeated the thinking of our society to such an extent that male teachers and carers are now afraid to touch or cuddle children and as for fathers they fear to embrace their daughters.

Men can be accused of domestic violence towards their partners and sexual abuse without evidence. Courts discriminate against fathers and refuse to allow them access to their children on the whims of vicious partners. And yes let?s be frank here, this is all down to the feminist movement and the agenda I mentioned earlier, divide and conquer was and still is the plan and it comes in many different guises of this there is no doubt! So when Harriet Harman says Families need practical support one needs to ask just what her definition of family really is given her staggering attack on men and their role in modern life back in 1990 or is this simply another case of deception and spin?

Fact being, since 1997 when Labour came to office nearly 400,000 children have needlessly lost contact with their fathers due to the unjust family court system which favours mothers and denies children and fathers the Right to family life as should be so in accordance with Human Rights Act article 8 and the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Sadly due to Labour policy and ideology re family law 100 children per day loose contact and over one million grandparents like all grandparents have no legal presumption to see their grandchildren, indeed all the paternal side of the child?s family is removed after separation or divorce by judges who put the interest of mothers before the best interest of the children.

Result being that the innocent children involved have lost out on the very role models they need and are entitled to. So now we have a generation of children stripped of their right to be nourished and cherished by the paternal side of their family in their formative years hence its no wonder therefore that we now see a rise in dysfunctional and anti social children. For Ms Harman to be in support of the traditional family her priority since coming to office would have been to give Human Rights to fathers and the paternal side of a child?s family only then could we say she had the best interest of society at heart, instead she has continued in her ideology that men are not an asset to family life and as such has endorsed the downward spiral of our youth and society by so doing.

Suffice to say Harriat Harman and her ilk has been the main driving force behind the destruction of the traditional family this to the detriment of the very fabric of society itself. We for our part at the NSCFC will continue to highlight the governments destructive policy which undermines the marriage based family, fact being according to UNICEF the traditional family unit is by far the most stable environment for children to grow up in and as such condemns both Ms Harman and her party for continuing to undermine it.

That Ms Harman would now become Deputy Prime Minister is by far the worst of all possible outcomes for families and society alike, this based purely and simply on her track record and ideology alone and yes if she has her way the traditional family and its values will be no more.

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jojostar · 15/09/2008 23:24

Mamazon, another single mother on the war path... Me ignorant
HELLO Read ALL the posts on this thread and the title please...This post refers to ex wives who are using their children to get at/control their ex husbands and how it pisses me off that they give us normal ex wives who have moved on a bad name
I did not mention anything about single mothers until asked about them and I confirmed I was one too for 5 years. I have stated time and again that not all ex wives are like this as I too am an Ex wife and I do not act in this way..

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jojostar · 15/09/2008 23:25

Misi have you contacted Families need Fathers, we found them really helpful.

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Mamazon · 15/09/2008 23:29

yes and to the family of most wanker ex's its the wife who is to blame for it all.

they have done nothing wrong, they just want to see their children.
thats ebcause the family and friends dont see what happens when they aren't around, they only get to hear what he tells them.

Im sure you have an axe to grind with teh mother of yruo partners children but your title was not a vent at her but at "mothers who stop contact with their fathers for no good reason "

To my ex's family that would be me...seeing as they have always accused me of lying about the violance and raoe i suffered whilst living with him!

but yeah, im really ignorant..oh and bitter and jealous irt seems

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misi · 16/09/2008 00:01

jojostar been a member for 3 years and still an active participant on the forums

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jojostar · 16/09/2008 00:13

if you stopped contact for a good reason (such as violence) then whatever they think is their problem.

You are saying you are not like the ex in my thread

that Is my point

That all ex wives are getting tar'd with the same brush and its not fair.

I have said my vent was not based on what I have been told about my dh ex but what I have personally witnessed which is what everyone else is saying/sharing experiences on this thread. My ex husband called me all the names under the sun to anyone who would listen most of which was lies.

tbh calling him a wanker does make you sound a little bitter though.

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jojostar · 16/09/2008 00:16

misi we've just joined its really good and helpful although I wasnt aware how much of this shit actually happens before now.
There is abit of good news though we have managed to re instate our night with the girls

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misi · 16/09/2008 00:18

ah, know who you are now (on FnF)!! (I think)
it is good news, hope it gets even better as you go on

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LittleBella · 16/09/2008 12:09

I don't think calling an ex who has abused you and your children a wanker, makes anyone sound bitter. It sounds rather mild and forgiving to me.

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Judy1234 · 16/09/2008 20:06

We need families need fathers to publicise all the fathers who choose not see children and mothers like I am who really would love fathers to have children 50% of the year or even one week a year woul dbe great. That is as big a problem and children needing fathers as it is in the reverse where women (and sometimes men) prevent the other spouse seeing the children.

A good start if 50% each of time not just men dotting in when they feel like it but having to juggle being away on business as I am later this week with finding child care, hiring part time care, sorting out and paying forlong school holidays whilst mothers and fathers work full time. Far too many men don't get involved in that kind of care and just want the nice bits which is very wrong. And many don't turn up when tey say they will - we shoudl have a three strikes you're out rule for those bad fathers - don't turn up for the next 2 contacts on time and you lose the next two etc.

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jojostar · 16/09/2008 22:33

what about the kids though? how do you keep saying sorry your dad cant be arsed but now he is arsed you cant see him? I'm not defending shite dads cos my kids have one who they barely see doesnt stop them wanting too though. I totally agree it is very hard work when dads don't help, care, support or even acknowledge they have children but that isnt the fault of the dads who do care want to support love and cherish their children. they dont want to just dot in when they feel like it, they want to have an active role in their childrens lives but some ex wives wont give up the 'control' and let decent fathers help.

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Judy1234 · 17/09/2008 08:54

I agree and most fathers are like that and thankfully most fathers and mothers after divorce do just agree contact between them and find something that works. It is the rare exceptions like my ex who doesn't want to be involved nor pay or the women who thwart all contact because they have so little else in their lives (usually they don't work) who are the exceptions and make the situation so painful. If these men of course had ensured both they and their wives worked full time on divorce their position would be much better - they might be getting big pay outs like my ex got and courts would be more likely to award residence to them. In other words in a sense you can reap what you sow - enjoy a housewife and ironed shirts and the convenience of her free child care whilst you're married and the status quo after will be the same - children with wife. Ensure you both work full time which is harder for most husbands to tolerate, allow your flimsy male ego to cope with that, rush home to the nursery or childminder as a man, make some career sacrifice, perhaps spend more time with the children than the wife and on divorce you have a better chance of more time with them. But men never realise this or thnk about it as most of us marry thinking it will be for life.

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LittleBella · 17/09/2008 10:19

Xenia FNF aren't interesting in publicising the much bigger problem of men who don't bother having contact or mess about with it, because their agenda isn't the rights of children, it's the rights of fathers.

And anyway, most men in the RW who claim they want to have 50 50 shared care, would actually not bother to do do their share of the care - they'd merely dump it on their mothers or their new girlfriends, there's usually an idiot woman they can find who will do their domestic labour for them.

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Judy1234 · 17/09/2008 10:23

But some cultures seem to have moved better to 50/50 and an assumption of that. We are getting there now actually. It's just a matter of time but if the law had a presumption of 50/50 where both parents work full time that would be easier for fathers who want more contact and for mothers who want the fathers to have more and for children to see both parents without feeling split in two in having to decide.

There are many more fathers who won't get involved than mothers who deny contact although I think it is worse for a parent to be denied contact than to have it 365 days a year as I do. I would not have divorced if I might have "lost" the children and I know men who won't divorce because they could not bear to be separated from their children on a daily basis.

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LittleBella · 17/09/2008 10:32

I don't think it's in the best interests of children to have a presumption of 50 50. Having two homes where you spend equal amounts of time, is difficult enough for an adult to negotiate, let alone children. I also think adults have the right to move on without losing contact with their children - if one of the parties get offered a job in a city 100 miles away, they obviously can't have 50 50, but they should still have the right to have regular contact.

It will be interesting to see what the generation of children who are growing up with 50 50 arrangements, say about it when they are old enough to evaluate whether it was a positive or a negative thing for them. It will also be interesting to see hwat type of working and domestic culture this type of arrangement works best in.

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neverforget · 17/09/2008 10:48

I have only read OP

I never stop my dh from seeing dd, I am on a low income and dh on more money than me and yet i travel the 50 miles on three trains to take dd to see him or I have to pay for my dh to come and see dd half way and when he comes he doesnt bring money for his lunch or if we are going to a pre-arranged cinema trip so I end up paying for that as well.

Oh and theres the fact that in her entire five years (even when we were together) he has never bought or contributed to her birthday or xmas presents or anything else and while spending hundreds of pounds on a bloody computer would moan if i spent a couple of quid on dd.

Hes never played with her took her anywhere, refused to take her to school and made me take her each morning when i wasnt working and he was making me late for work each day while he was still asleep in bed. Or the fact that when I had staples in from surgery he refused to take dd to a paid for activity two minutes walk away despite dds desperate pleads to the point i took her with staples in from major stomach surgery that week.

Have been separated 10 months and he hasnt given her one bloody penny either despite knowing I was struggling to hell to buy her school uniform and shoes etc. And yet to his friends/family I am the bad one because I can only afford to spend £50 for his petrol/lunch/cinema etc every other week

So maybe those mums are just sick of their exes still treating them and their children like crap even after the split.

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Judy1234 · 17/09/2008 11:22

And I ensure mine see his parents too which is quite some distance away because it's not fair on them if they don't see the grandchildren and I email them photos.

I think on LittleB's point it depends on the family set up before divorce. If both parents always worked full time as we did and both very much did 50% before hand then to continue that after particularly for younger children is not too bad and plenty of children adjust to a week in one house and a week in another until they are about 11 or 12. Then most teenagers want one base. I suppose you could go with Bob Geldof's suggestion and have the chdilren say in the house and the parents move in and out every other week as why should the children be put out because the adults have made a mess of things but that's not very practicable. Teenagers even if they live with you often hardly emerge and just grunt whichever parent they are with.

What most people probably agree on is children benefit from two parents in their lives and men who want to erase them from their lives are pretty awful as are mothers who make the children call the step father father and don't allow contact with the father. If someone loves their child I can't see how they could stop it seeing its parent. The father is 50% of that child. Even if he has faults (as do mothers) it does not mean it's best not to see him

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misi · 17/09/2008 11:37

little bella, it shows you are not a member of FNF or read recent stories about FNF as you would know how wrong your statement is about FnF not wanting to publisice thew bigger probelm you mention. there are many mothers, step mothers and grandparents on FnF as well as fathers. A recent post by a father complaining about his ex asking him to buy clothes for the kids for his own home rather than her pack a bag for them was met with a hail of mother is right you are wrong posts from other fathers on the forums. FnF is about shared parenting and best for kids, it does not promote one parent over the other. there are recent examples of where FnF members have helped the mother in court against the father and have been punished by the courts because of it, saying FnF is only about the rights of fathers is about as far wrong as you can get, FnF also recently fought for grandparents rights, who you may be suprised to know have no rights when it comes to the kids especially when kids are taken into care or put up for adoption, a grandparent has no right to know what is happening to their grand kids.
FnF are a non political charity, it works quietly and equally for the rights of all parents, it does not engage in acts like F4j did and does not condone such acts, please, if you want to comment about something like this, get your facts straight first?

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LittleBella · 17/09/2008 11:42

I have got my facts straight. You are very lucky that F4J was invented, because it's had the effect of making FNF look reasonable. Unless FNF has completely changed its policies and attitudes in the last 10 years, it is a mysogynist organisation which is all about the rights of fathers. I suspect it's learned to talk the talk though, as it saw that F4J brought absent fathers into disrepute and didn't want to go down the same path. Your rant about Harriet Harman said it all really - plus ca change.

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LittleBella · 17/09/2008 11:47

The clue is in the name - FNF. Families need good fathers, not any old fathers. FNF have very little to say on the subject of fathers who abuse their contact time with their children, very little to say about bad fathers. When they talk as much about that as about the mothers who deny contact, then I'll believe they're about the welfare of children.

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misi · 17/09/2008 11:57

littlebella, FnF would not get the government funding it gets or be able to have members sitting on the DCA reform board if it were only interested in fathers rights and not those of all parents and the children. it is open to scrutiny and any hint of bias or favouritism would mean an end of funding and all the other things FnF have acheived. ask the mothers on this forum who are members of FnF what they think. ask FnF who have been fined £10's of thousands of pounds because of its support for a mother against the father recently, sorry littlebella, facts right you aint got!

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misi · 17/09/2008 12:00

oh, and don't forget, half the board of trustees are women, half the staff are women, hardly a woman hating environment when women/mothers/grandmothers help to form policy and make decisions

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Judy1234 · 17/09/2008 12:26

I don't expect them to campaign against the legions of fathers who choose not to have contact as I am sure they have enough work with mothers who deny contact but it would be good if the voice of women was heard where the father chooses not to be involved. We need women on the roof of buckingham palace complaining about father's not doing 50% of the child care etc but we're too busy minding our children 365 days a year.

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