to think mothers who stop contact with their fathers for no good reason other than they need to control are sad jealous manipulative f*ckers who need to get a grip and move and stop giving every other mother who have moved on a bad name

[jojostar]

it makes me so mad AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH

[Judy1234]

It's a very valid cause.

[Surfermum]

FNF aren't about men who abuse their contact, they're about supporting people who don't have contact. And that's a very valid cause. Just because they only concentrate on that doesn't mean they aren't about welfare of the children - IMO that's exactly what they're about.

[LittleBella]

quite, xenia

Also I wouldn't expose my children to the finger pointing of others by shinning up a drainpipe. (And also, I'm not sure my spine could handle it. )

The voice of Resident Parent Women is very rarely heard in these debates.

[LittleBella]

Lots of women also support f4j misi.

Being able to wheel out women to support fnf, isn't proof that it's a woman-friendly organisation.

Show me the links where it has something to say on the subject of men who abuse their contact?

[Judy1234]

I don't expect them to campaign against the legions of fathers who choose not to have contact as I am sure they have enough work with mothers who deny contact but it would be good if the voice of women was heard where the father chooses not to be involved. We need women on the roof of buckingham palace complaining about father's not doing 50% of the child care etc but we're too busy minding our children 365 days a year.

[misi]

oh, and don't forget, half the board of trustees are women, half the staff are women, hardly a woman hating environment when women/mothers/grandmothers help to form policy and make decisions

[misi]

littlebella, FnF would not get the government funding it gets or be able to have members sitting on the DCA reform board if it were only interested in fathers rights and not those of all parents and the children. it is open to scrutiny and any hint of bias or favouritism would mean an end of funding and all the other things FnF have acheived. ask the mothers on this forum who are members of FnF what they think. ask FnF who have been fined £10's of thousands of pounds because of its support for a mother against the father recently, sorry littlebella, facts right you aint got!

[LittleBella]

The clue is in the name - FNF. Families need good fathers, not any old fathers. FNF have very little to say on the subject of fathers who abuse their contact time with their children, very little to say about bad fathers. When they talk as much about that as about the mothers who deny contact, then I'll believe they're about the welfare of children.

[LittleBella]

I have got my facts straight. You are very lucky that F4J was invented, because it's had the effect of making FNF look reasonable. Unless FNF has completely changed its policies and attitudes in the last 10 years, it is a mysogynist organisation which is all about the rights of fathers. I suspect it's learned to talk the talk though, as it saw that F4J brought absent fathers into disrepute and didn't want to go down the same path. Your rant about Harriet Harman said it all really - plus ca change.

[misi]

little bella, it shows you are not a member of FNF or read recent stories about FNF as you would know how wrong your statement is about FnF not wanting to publisice thew bigger probelm you mention. there are many mothers, step mothers and grandparents on FnF as well as fathers. A recent post by a father complaining about his ex asking him to buy clothes for the kids for his own home rather than her pack a bag for them was met with a hail of mother is right you are wrong posts from other fathers on the forums. FnF is about shared parenting and best for kids, it does not promote one parent over the other. there are recent examples of where FnF members have helped the mother in court against the father and have been punished by the courts because of it, saying FnF is only about the rights of fathers is about as far wrong as you can get, FnF also recently fought for grandparents rights, who you may be suprised to know have no rights when it comes to the kids especially when kids are taken into care or put up for adoption, a grandparent has no right to know what is happening to their grand kids.
FnF are a non political charity, it works quietly and equally for the rights of all parents, it does not engage in acts like F4j did and does not condone such acts, please, if you want to comment about something like this, get your facts straight first?

[Judy1234]

And I ensure mine see his parents too which is quite some distance away because it's not fair on them if they don't see the grandchildren and I email them photos.

I think on LittleB's point it depends on the family set up before divorce. If both parents always worked full time as we did and both very much did 50% before hand then to continue that after particularly for younger children is not too bad and plenty of children adjust to a week in one house and a week in another until they are about 11 or 12. Then most teenagers want one base. I suppose you could go with Bob Geldof's suggestion and have the chdilren say in the house and the parents move in and out every other week as why should the children be put out because the adults have made a mess of things but that's not very practicable. Teenagers even if they live with you often hardly emerge and just grunt whichever parent they are with.

What most people probably agree on is children benefit from two parents in their lives and men who want to erase them from their lives are pretty awful as are mothers who make the children call the step father father and don't allow contact with the father. If someone loves their child I can't see how they could stop it seeing its parent. The father is 50% of that child. Even if he has faults (as do mothers) it does not mean it's best not to see him

[neverforget]

I have only read OP

I never stop my dh from seeing dd, I am on a low income and dh on more money than me and yet i travel the 50 miles on three trains to take dd to see him or I have to pay for my dh to come and see dd half way and when he comes he doesnt bring money for his lunch or if we are going to a pre-arranged cinema trip so I end up paying for that as well.

Oh and theres the fact that in her entire five years (even when we were together) he has never bought or contributed to her birthday or xmas presents or anything else and while spending hundreds of pounds on a bloody computer would moan if i spent a couple of quid on dd.

Hes never played with her took her anywhere, refused to take her to school and made me take her each morning when i wasnt working and he was making me late for work each day while he was still asleep in bed. Or the fact that when I had staples in from surgery he refused to take dd to a paid for activity two minutes walk away despite dds desperate pleads to the point i took her with staples in from major stomach surgery that week.

Have been separated 10 months and he hasnt given her one bloody penny either despite knowing I was struggling to hell to buy her school uniform and shoes etc. And yet to his friends/family I am the bad one because I can only afford to spend £50 for his petrol/lunch/cinema etc every other week

So maybe those mums are just sick of their exes still treating them and their children like crap even after the split.

[LittleBella]

I don't think it's in the best interests of children to have a presumption of 50 50. Having two homes where you spend equal amounts of time, is difficult enough for an adult to negotiate, let alone children. I also think adults have the right to move on without losing contact with their children - if one of the parties get offered a job in a city 100 miles away, they obviously can't have 50 50, but they should still have the right to have regular contact.

It will be interesting to see what the generation of children who are growing up with 50 50 arrangements, say about it when they are old enough to evaluate whether it was a positive or a negative thing for them. It will also be interesting to see hwat type of working and domestic culture this type of arrangement works best in.

[Judy1234]

But some cultures seem to have moved better to 50/50 and an assumption of that. We are getting there now actually. It's just a matter of time but if the law had a presumption of 50/50 where both parents work full time that would be easier for fathers who want more contact and for mothers who want the fathers to have more and for children to see both parents without feeling split in two in having to decide.

There are many more fathers who won't get involved than mothers who deny contact although I think it is worse for a parent to be denied contact than to have it 365 days a year as I do. I would not have divorced if I might have "lost" the children and I know men who won't divorce because they could not bear to be separated from their children on a daily basis.

[LittleBella]

Xenia FNF aren't interesting in publicising the much bigger problem of men who don't bother having contact or mess about with it, because their agenda isn't the rights of children, it's the rights of fathers.

And anyway, most men in the RW who claim they want to have 50 50 shared care, would actually not bother to do do their share of the care - they'd merely dump it on their mothers or their new girlfriends, there's usually an idiot woman they can find who will do their domestic labour for them.

[Judy1234]

I agree and most fathers are like that and thankfully most fathers and mothers after divorce do just agree contact between them and find something that works. It is the rare exceptions like my ex who doesn't want to be involved nor pay or the women who thwart all contact because they have so little else in their lives (usually they don't work) who are the exceptions and make the situation so painful. If these men of course had ensured both they and their wives worked full time on divorce their position would be much better - they might be getting big pay outs like my ex got and courts would be more likely to award residence to them. In other words in a sense you can reap what you sow - enjoy a housewife and ironed shirts and the convenience of her free child care whilst you're married and the status quo after will be the same - children with wife. Ensure you both work full time which is harder for most husbands to tolerate, allow your flimsy male ego to cope with that, rush home to the nursery or childminder as a man, make some career sacrifice, perhaps spend more time with the children than the wife and on divorce you have a better chance of more time with them. But men never realise this or thnk about it as most of us marry thinking it will be for life.

[jojostar]

what about the kids though? how do you keep saying sorry your dad cant be arsed but now he is arsed you cant see him? I'm not defending shite dads cos my kids have one who they barely see doesnt stop them wanting too though. I totally agree it is very hard work when dads don't help, care, support or even acknowledge they have children but that isnt the fault of the dads who do care want to support love and cherish their children. they dont want to just dot in when they feel like it, they want to have an active role in their childrens lives but some ex wives wont give up the 'control' and let decent fathers help.

[Judy1234]

We need families need fathers to publicise all the fathers who choose not see children and mothers like I am who really would love fathers to have children 50% of the year or even one week a year woul dbe great. That is as big a problem and children needing fathers as it is in the reverse where women (and sometimes men) prevent the other spouse seeing the children.

A good start if 50% each of time not just men dotting in when they feel like it but having to juggle being away on business as I am later this week with finding child care, hiring part time care, sorting out and paying forlong school holidays whilst mothers and fathers work full time. Far too many men don't get involved in that kind of care and just want the nice bits which is very wrong. And many don't turn up when tey say they will - we shoudl have a three strikes you're out rule for those bad fathers - don't turn up for the next 2 contacts on time and you lose the next two etc.

[LittleBella]

I don't think calling an ex who has abused you and your children a wanker, makes anyone sound bitter. It sounds rather mild and forgiving to me.

[misi]

ah, know who you are now (on FnF)!! (I think)
it is good news, hope it gets even better as you go on

[jojostar]

misi we've just joined its really good and helpful although I wasnt aware how much of this shit actually happens before now.
There is abit of good news though we have managed to re instate our night with the girls

[jojostar]

if you stopped contact for a good reason (such as violence) then whatever they think is their problem.

You are saying you are not like the ex in my thread

that Is my point

That all ex wives are getting tar'd with the same brush and its not fair.

I have said my vent was not based on what I have been told about my dh ex but what I have personally witnessed which is what everyone else is saying/sharing experiences on this thread. My ex husband called me all the names under the sun to anyone who would listen most of which was lies.

tbh calling him a wanker does make you sound a little bitter though.

[misi]

jojostar been a member for 3 years and still an active participant on the forums

[Mamazon]

yes and to the family of most wanker ex's its the wife who is to blame for it all.

they have done nothing wrong, they just want to see their children.
thats ebcause the family and friends dont see what happens when they aren't around, they only get to hear what he tells them.

Im sure you have an axe to grind with teh mother of yruo partners children but your title was not a vent at her but at "mothers who stop contact with their fathers for no good reason "

To my ex's family that would be me...seeing as they have always accused me of lying about the violance and raoe i suffered whilst living with him!

but yeah, im really ignorant..oh and bitter and jealous irt seems

[jojostar]

Misi have you contacted Families need Fathers, we found them really helpful.