To think "classes" for babies and very young children a re a money-making scam?

[Gateau]

I've never heard anything so ludicrous in all my life - "classes" for babies and very young children. I'm talking about the likes of music and singing classes, 'gym' classes, overpriced swimming classes etc etc.. The list is endless.
Recently someone told me their baby learnt to "wave" at a music class and another told me their little one learnt to climb stairs at gymn classes. Ummm, can we not teach them these ourselves??! I did.
I just find them so patronising and more than that, I don't think it's fair to put them in classes at such a young age. There's enough time for classes when school comes round.
I know some Mums, partic SAHMs want their LOs to socialise with other LOs and classes are a social outlet for them, but what's wrong with natural growth - ie nursery,a playgroup or mother and toddler group, soft play, the park, the garden, playing inside with them yourself, inviting other LOs round to play......??
IMO these classes are nothing but a money-making scam; I can't believe so many parents have fallen for it.

I went to classes to meet other Mums - we had just moved to a new area and I wanted to try out a load of different stuff because I knew that you have to meet lots of people to find a few that you "click" with.
Mostly now I do free stuff, except for swimming; where I like the fact that I can do the more advanced underwater stuff with a qualified lifesaver nearby - and the fact that it has more structure. I don't think that most of the classes are necessary, but they have their place for people who aren't so confident, or don't know other parents, or who just don't fancy having their own home ruined with paint and clay.

I take DS1 to plenty of good free things with surestart and things we do ourselves.

I have also paid to take him to Gymboree and other such classes.
Well worth the money to me to have other Mums to chat to and to see DS enjoy himself at the same time rather than me and him at the park on our own again

DS is now nearly 3 and has learnt a hell of a lot in terms of having a bit of structure to these classes and when he has to sit still at story time etc that he would never have picked up with playgroups or with just me and it will help him settle into nursery school I think.

Average Hall Hire Cost £20 per hour (you need to set up and clear away so for 3o minute class need hall for 2 hours

Insurance £500 per year

CRB checks £60 per person

Minimum wage for person running the group £5.52 per hour

Then you have transport costs, equipment etc.

Where's the money making?

Um...doesn't it depend rather what classes you're talking about. I actually think swimming classes can only be a good thing - encourage confidence in the water etc

I always found that classes - which provide an activity and a bit of structure are a far easier way of meeting and interacting with a bunch of strange Mums and kids than walking into a M&T group. So i quite like them. It doesn't mean to say that we don't do all the other things like going to the park etc - it just provides variety and what's wrong with that? Equally what's wrong with someone running a class to make a bit of cash if the Mums and kids get something positive out of it?

I read the OP as saying that the idea being sold to parents, of very young children learning anything useful at these classes that they couldn't learn in the course of day-to-day life is ludicrous and misleading.

Not that parents are stupid at all. Just that these days there is far to much 'stuff' out there to spend money on, and if you step back and look at it from a distance most of it is unnecessary.

stripey mama - how did you find people with simialr interests to socialiuse with when you were at home all day with young children if not through childrens groups?

I moved to a new area just before DS2 was born. I have met ALL my friends here (some very good friends) through these classes and groups.
I'd have been lonely as hell and miserable if I'd thought to myself 'I cant be a mug abd pay £5 for this class when I could stay at home and teach DS to climb the stairs myself'

Of course swimming classes are great once the kids are 3 or 4; mine will certainly go at that age.
One of my friend's little boy (from about 6 months)has been going to one of these really expensive, go underwater classes. When we took out LOs to a paddling pool, he clung to the side, petrified, whereas my DS was off, no qualms and so confident. He has never been to a swimming class in his life.
My friedn may has well have burnt the tenners she has spent, fat good the class did her LO.

And as for 'getting them ready for nursery' - nursery is for getting them ready for Reception which is in turn getting them ready for Year One. For me, thats enough getting ready. Leave them alone and let them be little while they can!

I had friends before I had children, some of whom also have children and some of whom don't. I still see many of them.

I genuinely am surprised that people don't already have friends and have to find them by going to baby classes - I'm honestly not trying to be snarky about it. Obviously I have made some new friends since dd was born but mainly just through day-to-day life - in the park, at nursery, through other friends etc.

Thanks stripeymama. You totally get what I'm saying.
I must say, I do commend the organisers - they have definately sold the idea to lots and lots of mums that these classes are something their child NEEDS.
I went to a trial Gymboree class and had to make an excuse to leave. I was cringeing. What a load of patronising, twee crap.

Stripey. 6 months after I had dd I moved 40 miles to be closer to family. Unfortunately family were all out at work all day and I was stuck inside, alone.

Even before I moved all my friends were from work, I worked 20 miles away from where I lived. I knew absolutely NO-ONE who was at home with young children.

I have a music degree as does my husband yet I still don't regret a penny I spent on Rhythm Time or anything I spend now on Tumble Tots.

And to the person who didn't understand what 'natural growth' is - it's letting kids be kids - it's not for long, after all, and not subjecting them to unnecessary structure.
I'm sure most toddlers - partic boys, would prefer to be running round exploring, rather than sitting in a clas, whatever it is.

I agree, However as SAHM I went because it is very easy to be constantly doing 'chores' at home by signing uo to these classes you have a few hours a week dedicated to your child and they stop us going crazy!

not sure where the scam is
it's providing a service? which you can choose to attend or not
i run baby classes
we have a great time - some parents come and don't like it so they don' come again
I don't know of anyone who thinks that their baby 'needs' it - i would certainly dissuade them of that if they did! but they enjoy it, and so do the babies, and they make friends there, which is always nice

I think it depends where you live Stripeymama. I hardly knew anyone around where I lived pre-children as I was always out at work during the week. If you add in having to move to a slightly different area because of having a child you end up not knowing anyone around you and particularly not other Mums right at the beginning when you need to get out. Classes are great for that, free ones or expensive ones. We mostly did free ones!

They are however, an option. You don't HAVE to do them if you don't like them. People's circumstances are different, as are their kids - some like them, some don't. Live and let live, no?

"My friedn may has well have burnt the tenners she has spent, fat good the class did her LO."

You see I think that sounds quite mean. Your friend spent money on classes and he is still nervous in the water, so you think she is a mug rather than a parent trying to do something that will help her child that she will also enjoy because it didn't work out.

There is a similar feel to your OP, a scathing tone that you apply to anyone who wants to pay for a group rather than go to soft play or toddlers. How do you know they don't do these things as well?

Islandofsodor - ok, I can see that the chance to meet other parents was important and tbh I'd go loopy without friends!

BUT I still have an issue with a society and culture in which mothers are so isolated that they have to pay to go and shake tambourines with their children in order to find people to talk to.

Having lived an 'alternative' lifestyle (squatting, communal living, travelling etc) before dd was born I see the way most families live as deeply unnatural.

With my children we did music and swimming ourselves. I did take all of them to a gym class, which is fab - it is the gym that ds1 and dd still do gymnastics at, and basically is free play on all the gym equipment, but with a small section of exercises. TOTALLY worth the money - the kids love it, and the leadership is absolutely inspirational. And it's only something like £3 a week, which tbh you would spend at a soft play if you went there instead.

I took ds to a "Ducklings" (swimming) class from 4 months old. It cost something like £2.50 -of which £2.15 was what it would have cots for me to go swimming - so hardly overpriced.

He went from 4 months until he progress on to the "full" swimming courses run by the council (at age 5) - and as a result of having been, was able to swim by the time he started.

"Class" lasted 45 minutes and sometimes dh would take him and sometimes we would go together (the other one doing lengths while ds and adult was in the class).

For me swimming lesson were a safety thing - I wanted to be confident that he would be safe near water as young as possible.

Stipeymama - I agree, it is a shame that some people don't enjoy a community but if someone is isolated and doesn't know many people, that doesn't mean they are falling for a scam by choosing to add a class to the things that they do in a week.

Just because some of us choose to go to organised structured session- my friends all do not have children so I had to meet other moms for my sanity.

Stripey just because you have had an 'alternative' lifetsyle and just because I don't choose to squat doesn't make ME or my lifestyle unnatural

Agree that the child that was scared at the paddling pool probably just had a very different personality. Some children are just naturally more confident than others. I would suggest that it's actually a good thing that he's going to swimming classes, it will normalise the water for him.

I do agree that our lives nowadays are pretty strange and much more isolated than they used to be. My Mum lived close to her Mum and ILs and was in a road that had a lot of SAHMs with children my age. Plus it was close to the area where she grew up. That just isn't going to happen to 99% of Mums nowadays. So we find different ways of getting social networks. Just goes to show how adaptable the human race is, eh?

For what it's worth, we moved long distance when I was pregnant, then long distance again when DD was 5 months old. Since then, all the moves have been a shorter distance, but who knows whether that will chance due to DH's job? So I had a lot of old-life friends, I had pregnancy friends, antenatal class friends, and postnatal friends. But none of them seemed keen to move with me.

Preetybird, your classes sound good. The ones I'm talking about cost around a tenner a class and you have to sign up for the whole term.

Ok, I am not accusing parents of 'falling for a scam'. I am saying that many (not all) of these classes are unnecessary for children, and were they advertised as "pay £5 a session to meet other mums" they might get a different reception.

I think many mums should actually do a lot more for themselves, that they enjoy, and get rid of some of the dreary guilt that these classes help (IMO) to perpetuate by convincing women that their
babies somehow need to be 'taught' things.

Bluebell - living in isolation with your dc, and having to pay to associate with other mothers, is unnatural and pretty recent for humans.

I don't blame individual mothers for this, rather the society and culture we live in, the economic pressures that force people to leave families and friends to make a living, the way mothers are generally undervalued by society, the lack in many areas of good cheap accessible public transport and facilities for parents and children, the expectations of mothers that they should only do things for their children....

Of course mothers should meet other mothers and enjoy themselves. Its very very important for us all to socialise. I just find something odd and sad about a culture where the only place it can happen for some women is at a paid-for class in baby nursery rhymes.