the UK is stupid to encourage 40,000 to got to uni and write Media studies essays?

[Marchbirthday]

My eldest DS has told me that 40,000 students each year are taking Media Studies courses. He signed up for a very practical hands on course which we hope will enable him to fix stuff, wire stuff, film stuff, record sound, understand cabling and editing. He's done very well on the practical stuff but will get the lowest mark because his essay writing skills are poor. He doesn't want to be a film critic, or writer. There aren't 40,000 jobs in the media industry, and don't we need practical technical people not more writers?

Your son, if he wants to be an engineer, cameraman, and to some extent editor, will in all likelyhood end up being freelance. The money will be good when he gets the jobs, as will the experience. However there fewer 'staff' jobs (in places like the BBC for example)these days, and with the cuts in staff being made by many of the bigger broadcasting companies/corporations he might find it difficult to get continuous work.

On the positive side, fewer people choose to study for these more technical jobs and he's not going to have as hard a time as all the people on 'media' courses who end up pulling pints or re-training to teach when they realise there are no jobs or they have no talent!

I read somewhere that graduates in media studies had one of the highest employment rates of any graduate groups.

to op.

good god. what a waste of an education and money and ultimately, a future.

sorry, that was 40,000 educations, etc.

but renaissance man did not differentiate between art and science they were inextricably linked.both require rigour and inquiring mind and analytical process

arts dies not necessarily equate trashy trendy degree

I think I know what you are getting at Marchbirthday.

My take on it is as follows:

In the past fewer people got degrees and those who did got good well paid jobs. So of course all parents wanted their kids to go to university. The government played up to this and made it easier for this to happen by:

1. Increasing the number of universities (the polytechnics turned into universities)
2. Scrapping grants so they didn't get slapped with a huge bill

and so the value of degrees went down. Employers are NOT stupid and cherry pick the good degrees. (Whether you like it or not media studies does not have a reputation as a good degree - whether it is or not is irrelevant).

Result: lots of people with degrees of bad repute and huge debts on top of it.

Conclusion: stop conning people into thinking university is the best route for everyone. Save it for the genuinely academic. Fewer people go to university. This will save money which means funding will become available more widely again and poorer people can afford it. Those who are not genuinely academic become skilled workers. Home grown.

The end

Trouble is it is not that simple though is it??

My hubby didn't initially take the degree route, and just worked his way up through the company. But when he was made redundant, no-one would look at him because he didn't have a degree (and he was told that to his face on a couple of occasions). He had to go back and get that piece of paper, to say that he could do the job he had been doing for the past 7 years. Two years later, he had the degree and sailed straight into a job from uni.

And that's why it is a no win situation. The trouble is that if you don't go to uni, you run the risk of reaching that glass ceiling and people not employing you because you haven't got a degree. But, if you do go to uni, then you run the risk of graduating and not getting a graduate job at the end of it, and loads of debt to boot (as was the situation with many of hubby's classmates). It is a risk either way.

I don't like this assumption that some topics are less worthy than others. Its only society that makes that value judgement.

I agree that vocational qualifications are extremely important and wish that I had been encouraged to go down that line. Would be nice to actually "be" something.

I have a Social Policy degree (first class, I can smugly say tee hee) but I value that it was with the Open Uni and I had to work far harder (whilst in full time work) than my peers who went off to Uni from school and did mathematics, 'proper' science and so forth.

Its also about what you enjoy doing as degrees are so common place as to be almost worthless in a work place. Its about developing your general skills, essay writing, argument etc.

I am now doing post graduate studies with the OU but sticking to my fluffy pink subject of SP!

when I say I had to work harder, I only mean because of the OU aspect - not that the subject is any harder

My friends seemed to spend 3 years drinking and 2 weeks cramming ...

The actual number accepted onto media studies courses through UCAS in 2007 was 4,831, so I suspect your DS misheard. There are also 2,054 doing journalism.
The figures arehere and make interesting reading - I note that actually management studies & business studies are high up on the list in fact if you combined them, they would be top.
I also note that over 8,000 are doing Sports Science - wonder how many of those will find jobs in that field?

Hm, Pamelat, you are amking great assumptions about people who study in brickbuild Universities there.....Admittedly for young, fresh out of school students that do not have to work, it obviosuly will be easier...but I am pretty sure that me doing a OT degree at the grand age of 38 fulltime will be difficult, even though I don't have to have a fulltime job, I have 3 children and a household to look after aswell....so....I think it is a bit of a simpolistic look at it all....but I am sure you didn't actually mean it that way, but I just thought out I point it out.
(BTW, I haven't started yet, so, have no idea just how difficult I will find it all...all I know is that I am scared right now, lol)

I work, and recruit, in the media (broadcast/internet journalism).

A media studies degree, or any other degree wouldn't make a jot of difference to me when I'm shortlisting, but I would ask for a journalism qualification - slightly different to your son's field, I know.

So, it would be something like NCTJ journalism either post-A'level or post-graduate (some undergraduate media studies degrees also cover this).

That means a proven qualification in areas like libel and contempt.

But I wouldn't rely on qualifications alone because tbh they don't mean the candidate can do the job - I also set quite a stringent test and questions during interview.

Some of the best-qualified people who've looked great on paper (first class honours degree etc) then demonstrate they'd be useless journalists.

My big bugbear is poor command of language - and that's not a degree-level skill, it's basic education. Yet a lot of people think they'll get into journalism (and some do) without that.

In other non-journalism related fields I'd say a good work ethic and persistence plus of course the ability to do whatever it is you're aiming at (be it film editing or whatever) will set your ds apart from others.

I worked for a very well known broadcaster for 10 years and not a single person in any of the departments I worked in had done 'Media Studies'. I have also taught on Media Studies BTEC courses and frankly, they are useless.

Ime a lot of the written coursework is linked to construction of texts and news agenda etc all of which will be useful to someone wishing to work in editing.

Take offence to posters passing media studies off as an easy option, I worked bloody hard for mine.

I suppose Oxford, English degree 2/1 and very good ability to write English is probably the sort of qualification which stands you in good stead for the better media careers.

Some of that Xenia - the very good ability to write English is essential.

But a for journalism a good degree doesn't mean you know the best angle for a news story when you have a jumble of information in front of you.

Writing an essay is very different to writing a tv script for example.

And the best degree in the world doesn't confer good people skills and ability to interview others.

Plus degrees like economics, history or politics and definitely sciences (journalists with science backgrounds are very rare) would stand you in better stead than English in many ways - as long as you fit the criteria above too.

However, a good degree from a well-regarded university would help, if only from a confidence point of view, if you want to go further up the management tree in the media.

I also suspect a good degree in Media Studies demonstrates a very good level of ability in written English too.

Not these days@Xenia.

A 2.2 in any subject from an ex poly = fine

I always looked for - relevant work experience / voluntary work (never gave a single job, not even an entry level one, to anyone who hadn't done plenty of it) + evidence of interest in and knowledge of the area you are applying into / a determination to succeed / willingness to do whatever it takes to get on / initiative.

Plus ideas if a creative position - always wanted ideas at interview stage. Couldn't give a fig if you can write first class academic essays. Have you got shit hot ideas coming out of your ears? Can you sell them to me?

Mind you, I worked in a 'young' department of said broadcaster. There were probably a few Oxbridge types in News, but even there, the brightest young entry level-ers were often likely to have come from bog standard educational backgrounds but were extremely hungry for it.

Agreed MrsMattie - it horrifies me when candidates turn up to interview and are unfamiliar with the station's output that day, or even what issues are in the news.

They'll often have professed their enthusiasm on the application form but in reality can't be bothered to put in the homework in order to do well at interview.

The ones who do, and who are bursting with ideas are in short supply and stand head and shoulders above the rest.

Hi 3andnomore.

I am only going on the experience of my 30 or so friends who went.

Maybe its my friends who just dont try very hard.

I only know one exception, my brother. He did sports science (and also got a 1st) but he is not naturally academic and he tried very very hard at uni, and whilst working part time (as my parents couldnt just dish out cash to either of us).

I am sure that some people try. My friends found it straight forward until their finals but all could have done better if they had tried (doesnt seem to have done them any harm though and all have full time jobs)

Not making light of the effort of uni. More sticking up for the subjects perceived as 'fluffy'

pamelat - I don't think Media Studies is a 'fluffy' subject at all, I just think it's probably no more likely than any other degree to get you a decent job in the media. I also think most of the 'vocational' media courses at FE colleges are pretty poor, or at least, only as good as the industry connections of the college provider.

I worked in publishing for many years and all posts in my experience relied heavily on their own in-house testing.

I think it's very hard to say what will be a 'useful' degree. The study of literature in English was derided a century ago and the novel considered a debase form.

I taught Media to A-level for a long time but now only teach English and Lit to A-level. I have no problem with Media courses, they often teach good skills for the work place: IT know how, team work, working to deadlines - and to my mind most importantly, how to know when they're being manipulated. As a teacher, I grew bored not with Media Studies but with the media itself -lazy reporting, the gullible believing and regurgitating of politicians' lies and endless reality shows (when this country used to have a fine documentary tradition). In short, dumbest of dumbing down. The media hates media studies because it deconstructs the way society's inequalities are naturalised by the media. Media and capitalism have a symbiotic relationship and Media Studies questions that. A for instance would be how an understanding of continuity editing can present a truism that is only a representation of someone?s point of view?in other words, those of us that study the media know how mediated and shallow it is! Must be very uncomfortable for those who work in the Media, those that have any morals left that is!

I wouldn't say it's uncomfortable Eilatan - hard work, challenging, pressurised and intellectually demanding, yes.

And definitely more challenging to actually work in the media with any degree of thoroughness than it is to study it.

..ahem... can we please correct above to "different from" (never different to) and for my sake let's not split our infinitives or I will wince.