Upset by the nurses in the special care baby unit - long story

[Jenbot]

I know they are doing a great job looking after my baby, but two of them really upset me today when I overheard them talking about me.

(This is probably a bit garbled as I am upset as I'm typing.)

OK, the background... I am breastfeeding my premature baby when I am in the hospital. I originally didn't want her to have bottles at all but the consensus from the nurses was that for premature babies having a bottle helps them to learn that they need to suck to get food and that the advice for term babies re. bottle/breast confusion isn't relevant, and that I would get her home a lot quicker if I agreed to the bottle.

So, I said OK, give her bottles at night when I'm not there at midnight and four. I plan to drop the bottles once she's home and I'm with her all the time. She is on a 4 hourly feed schedule in hospital, but when she's home I plan to feed on demand.

When she had bottles all night she was really tired during the daytime and didn't breastfeed as well, so I talked to the nurses again and we decided that she should ideally have alternate feeds of bottle and tube through the night until she grows a bit bigger and gets more energy. Or they could give her a bottle if she cries and won't settle and wants to suck something, but feed by a tube otherwise. I said basically I was happy for them to do what they thought best for her while I wasn't there.

The nurses change every day and night, so you get a different one looking after your baby each shift. Today I went in and a nurse asked me if I was going to bottle feed her. I said no, I just breastfeed her then we top up by tube when I'm there. We usually judge how well she has done then guesstimate how much top op up by from the amount she's due to have on her schedule.

I asked her about me going in to stay overnight as the nurse yesterday night said it might be a possibility this week and I should discuss it today. (They only have one room and you can only go in when it looks like your baby is getting ready to go home.) The nurse today said that it wouldn't be a possibility and that they never let babies home until they were at least two weeks older than mine. So, I was disappointed of course, but I said fine, I don't want to rush her if you think she's not ready, I'm not pushing for it, and that I only asked as the nurse yesterday told me to ask. She said the nurse yesterday was junior and had made a mistake.

Anyway, I went to express afterwards and two of the nurses on shift must have thought I couldn't hear them.

They said: "Why is that mum asking about staying over, WE tell her when she can stay over, SHE can't ask us to stay over, it is our decision." / "And look, she says one thing one day and another thing another day, she's so confused. She said yes bottles, no bottles, yes bottles. Why can't she make up her mind?" / "We'll have to get her to write something down and sign it" / "She doesn't know what she's doing" (then they laughed) / "Yes she is doing all the care in the daytime, but how do we know what she'd be like when she got home? She'd get stressed and her mum lives really far away so she'd have no-one to help her"

At this point I called out to them that I could hear everything they were saying and one came in to see me. I shouted at her, I was angry - I said I wasn't changing my mind every day about bottle feeding, I'm trying to follow their advice and she should read the notes properly about why things had changed day to day. Also, that I'm not a bloody idiot: I know that babies are hard work at night, AND I wasn't asking to stay over, a nurse yesterday had TOLD me to talk to them about it today! Argh.
Then one who had said earlier that she always remembered the babies names called my baby girl "he" then got her name wrong when I reminded her she was a girl. There are only 3 babies in there at the moment for heaven's sake.

Then I burst into tears and cried for ages.

All nurses on the shift came and apologised to me one by one (although in a way like - "you misunderstood what we were saying, we did know you could hear us really, we just meant you were confused because we had confused you, we weren't laughing, the babies were making a noise" .

I really am SO upset because I feel like they have spoilt it for me now.

Going in every day, it is so hard to have to leave your baby every night already but I was being positive and I had got on with all the nurses really well before, now I'm stressed about having a row with some of them and what they are saying about me when I'm not there! Will they tell their colleagues who I got on well with before and they'll all suddenly think I'm a "difficult mum"? Will they all treat me differently now? Why would one question today how I'd cope at night?! Do they think there's something wrong with how I am?

I don't think they won't look after her, but I have to talk to all of them and work with them and I feel like it has spoilt the good relationship I felt I had with the unit over the past 3 weeks so I'm just miserable.

Then on top of everything, tonight is the first night I couldn't stay in 'til late because my husband has had to work at the last minute this evening and I don't drive and I couldn't find anyone else to take me. What a shit day.

Meh, this was going to a be "did I overreact? am I being unreasonable?" question but has turned into just being miserable, but never mind.

I will probably feel better in the morning!

It has all been said already....just to say, that I am sorry you had to deal with this at such a difficult and stressful time and congrats on the Birt of your dd!

Im so sorry that you had such a bad experience today. I was a neonatal nurse on a SCBU until recently and can see the situation from both perspectives, as a nurse and also as a mum.
You are totally right to be upset by what those nurses were saying..although maybe your more upset by the fact they were talking about you behind your back and not by what they actually said. Unfortunately there has been a massive breakdown in communication between the staff caring for your baby ( it happens, a lot), some nurses forget to hand things over, other nurses may not read the notes etc. But that doesnt excuse what they did, it was unprofessional.
I can guarantee that the nurses involved will be mortified and feeling very bad about what happened ( its a stressful job and stress doesnt always bring out the best in people). I would definately talk to the ward manager or nurse in charge and explain how you feel.

totally disagree with bottle feeding being easier for night shift workers on scbu - i ahve done a fair amount of nights on scbu and if i was to choose an 'easy' way to feed a prem baby it would be tube feeding by far!!!

but that is beside the point, jenbot, i am sure you didn;t over react, it must be so hard for you to be goign through this, we all just want out babies to come home with us, so keep strong and go with your gut feelings, after all she is your baby, so if you want to change your mind thats your perogative.

I think they were out of order and I am a nurse. You poor thing

Big hugs

YANBU - When my DD was in SCBU, I had to really pester them to let me start BF'ing her. They wanted to give it to her via a tube at tiny amounts per hr as they thought she was vomiting it all up. What they hadn't worked out was that she was only bringing it up after feeding as they kept lying her straight down afterwards ! With 10 minutes over a shoulder (I know the staff have a lot to do, but they'd have had a baby less a lot quicker if they'd done that !) she was fine. I expressed and they tube fed her while I wasnt there. My midwife had a word with the staff to get them to let me start BF'ing and also sorted out me staying over in a room with her. Advice given in so contradictory dependant on training etc, and EVERYTHING is really stressful for you.
Just try to remember that your lovely little baby WILL be back home with you soon. Stick with it but let them know how you feel.

Hello.
Just wanted to add really. I am a children's nurse so understand the situation. However, they were in the wrong for many reasons.

I suggest you consider the following....... Print off what you have written on this thread so you can use it to refer to. Go and ask for a meeting with the Ward Manager. Either give her what you've written to read or use it to refer to and explain how unhappy and disappointed you are. If his/her response is acceptable, leave it at that and look forward to bringing your baby home. If his/her response is not what you want, ask her about the formal complaints procedure and perhaps contact the Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS), most hospitals have one.

I hope it is resolved for your sake and that your lttle one comes home soon. For what it's worth, I think you handled it very well, you are not in the wrong and those nurses need some retraining (and also a pretty severe bollocking).

Agree with all the comments above. My DS was in SCBU for 2 weeks and I felt unable to be assertive as the whole situation seemed a bit unreal.
You're bound to feel very stressed, but well done for pointing out that you'd heard them talking. Keep your chin up. I guarantee that these nurses will be feeling very bad about all of this and will be willing to listen to your concerns from now on.

Hi Jenbot,
They were pretty awful to us when my ds was in scbu. Made bad taste jokes about him not liking me because he cried when I picked him up , being snide and sarcastic with me because he was so tiny I was scared of hurting him or knocking a wire off "he's your baby you know, you should be looking after him", interrogated us about our home life because we were quite young (19 and 21), in front of the other parents (Did we have jobs, did we have a car, did we live in a council or private house etc etc).

Some of them were so lacking in sensitivity.

I dont have fond memories of that time, I couldn't wait to get him out of there!

I know you dont know me, but where are you? Im happy to give you a lift from SCBU in evening if you want to stay late and are near me. HUgs and hope you feel better

I cried when I read your post.

I have had two babies in nicu then scbu and it is so hard.

Where abouts are you? Maybe a mnetter is near enough to drop you off or pick you up late from the hospital?

I struggled the last time having two other dc at home but was there all day and night and all the beeping and wires slowly drove me mad and I felt so tense all the time.

Best wishes for you and your gorgeous daughter x

yanbu im glad you said something to them might make them think twice. hugs xx

How awful. I've not had a baby in SCBU but mine was readmitted and it was very stressful so I do know at least some of how hard it must be only much more so for you, to start off with. I find the bit about how you shouldn't have even asked if you could stay particularly shocking.

I hope that if anyone on mn is near enough to you to be able to offer you some sort of support and help, you can take it up.

And that your little one is ready to come home soon.

Before then, perhaps you could also contact bf counsellors/groups or others who can help in your area.

No YANBU! Some of these NN nurses forget that the babies in their care have parents! It used to make me so angry! I cried to Mum so often that I felt like I wasn't her parent.

I had something similar, one day they didn't ask me to leave while they did handover, they were talking about my PNI!!! Then went to another baby and were talking about the mothers problems with the father which was either untrue or not the story she was saying - which I believed more because the father had been up.

And WTF!!! Bottles??? Erm.... NO!!! Do they know nothing about breastfeeding?

The hospital I was in didn't even allow a baby to have a dummy if they were breastfed and it would be on the bed that they were breastfed.

Our hospital sounds very much like stripey's. But Tink has a mind of her own. We started on one feed a day from 32 weeks, upped it at around 34 weeks to two a day (consecutive because she was still on the unit) unsupplemented (they kept laughing at me because I was saying "I can't believe she hasn't been fed all day!" not meaning she was starving, but I was proud of her taking what she needed) the next day I went to the transition ward and they wanted to do 2 to 1 but the next NG feed she screamed the place down till they told me to put her on the breast! After that she had two lazy feeds where we couldn't get her on the breast in about 3 days and then she was away.

UANBU for what they were saying. how early to start with as we were told the sucking reflex doesn't come in til 35 weeks.
we were told to aim for the due date for him coming home, luckily he came home 2 weeks before that but if I wasn't there to bf he was cup fed or tube fed rather than bottle fed afaik!
I also had the option of choosing donated milk or formula if the ran out of ebm (I chose donated)
we roomed in for 2 days before he came home and was suggested by the doctors once he had been putting on weight when completed bf by me and could solely bf
sorry if this sounds garbelled as have been out for the night

TBD just looked up when I read that, smiled and said it sounds like we were lucky. I feel the same every time I talk to someone from a different hospital.

I just reread the post and wanted to say that a study has found that on average bottlefed babies go home a week later than breastfed babies. Also would you want to get your baby home at any cost? I begged them to give her a bottle because at our hospital they keep breastfed babies in for at least an extra week because they go onto transition ward, which bottle fed babies don't do, they use the flat for a night or two. The nurses laughed (in a nice way, they were really friendly nurses) and told me I didn't really want to do that so they weren't going to give her a bottle!

Jenbot - you're a stronger woman than me. I think I'd have let them get away with having that conversation without letting on that I'd heard them. I think you are very brave, what with having to deal with your dd in SCUBU and unsupportive nurses. (I would think they're in the minority, but that doesn't help the situation)

I can so totally relate to your situation. I have had a similar, if not the same, issues when my DS was in NICU.

My DS was my first baby and they constantly played the 'hormones/PFB' trump card with me. It bloody infuriates me looking back that I did not take things further but I just wanted to get my baby home.

It is a very intense environment and all I would say to you is that getting some sort of care plan down on paper is not such a bad idea from all perspectives.

Hang on in there!!!!!

Jenbot - sounds very like my experience of SCBU. I had the same BF issues - I really didnt want DS to be given bottles but was put under pressure by the nurses. He came home bottle fed only and only really started BF after 2 months at home. Now 10 months I'm having such trouble getting him off the breast - he wont put a bottle near his lips!

I was also given conflicting info by the nurses in SCBU - DS going home Monday the next day the other shift knew nothing about it. I was allowed to stay in - he still wasnt allowed home - told another couple of days - would `i stay with him for them which I readily agreed to - then in the morning I was sent home. The whole experience was awful and although I never heard anyone saying anything about me I became convinced that they were.

I've stayed friends with several of the other mums from our SCBU weeks and we all say that if we ever had to go thru it again we would be much stronger. We felt that we were not able to parent our babies and were constantly being watched/criticised.

The second time I BF my LO the nurse asked if he needed a top up - i said he'd feed for anout 15 mins I wasnt sure - what did she think? And she replied you should know you're the mummy!! She then said we'd soon find out as he'd lose weight when next weighed if he wasnt getting enough - I was shocked and devastated!

Just hang in there and when you get your DD home it'll all seem a million miles away.....xx good luck and be strong.

My dd 14 wks today, thank god was not in SCBU and has so far been healthy but even when I had to take her to the dr for a tummy bug, my heart was in my mouth so I can't even imagine how distressing it must be to see your tiny baby in SCBU. You sound like you are doing a wonderful job and YANBU. You should complain. I dont care if the nurses are under stress. They should learn people skills how to deal with parents who must be so emotional and worried and need all the support they can get.
I am sure that you will have your baby home soon and this will soon only be a bad memory.
Hugs xxxx

Oh you have all been so nice to me. Honestly thank you all so much for the support and wonderfully kind offers of help.

I was weeping away when typing yesterday and I felt loads better when I quickly read the replies this morning before going back into the hospital! I'm sorry to hear about other mums having similar annoying things happen to them, you don't need it when you're so stressed already.

Anyway - I'm only home again this afternoon as I did speak to the ward sister. I said I wasn't at all unhappy with the unit overall as 99% of the staff had been great but yesterday had really really upset me.

She really apologised and said I was right to be angry and upset, then chatted to me for a bit and said I could indeed room in next week, or actually even from today, if I wanted to establish breastfeeding properly!

So I'm just packing a bag and heading back out to stay until we come home!

I'm feeling completely different now to how I was yesterday - what a change!

Thats brilliant

Oh my goodness not another one. When will these nurses learn. I too had similar problems and ended up really pushing it and threatening to go against medical advice with my hv support.
I know you're just heading out and I don't normally do this but if you need to chat my emails [email protected] (its my msn too).
Btw I put my foot down and refused bottles and dd survived in fact shes a lovely two year old trying to prevent me from typing this.

Just read this thread with horor - you poor thing, no wonder it upset you

I'm s glad you spoke up and that you're feeling better today. As others have said, soon it will be just a memory

riven

Sounds like some people are in the wrong job...