to think my dh's company is full of crap

[DonnyLass]

am hacked off big time with the attitude in dh's company that's all for single folks without families and puts unfair pressure on those who have families ...

For example, DH got asked sarcastically 'did you have a good time last night' a few weeks back by boss when he didn't go to a summer party that finished at 0100 and then had people going back into london to then make their way home ... he said, 'yes it was great hanging out with my family ... especially as I was away all the week and weekend before and hadn't seen them properly for 10 days with work stuff'

boss was a bit astonished actually

it really fecks me off

also regularly gets told to participate in TCs that START at 8pm etc etc etc

and eyebrows raised if he leaves work 'early' at 1830 to get train (hours are 0900--1730)

and a few weeks ago the senior group were told that 'the lash club; (yes they have a budget and an actual club dedicated to the art of getting pissed) had complained to HR that senior people weren't going to the lashy-events ... and the boss agreed that they should attend more

there's FUCK ALL for families/partners etc

and yet they are in the sunday times top10 list as being a great company to work for and were recently on tv as having great benefits and good employee atmosphere

yes -- if you are 23, single, want to get pissed a lot or want to be at work/with work colleagues all the time

AIBU to think there need to be some changes and respect for people who work there who have families? What should be suggested?

Sorry three schools not tree!Actually I don't think he would want me to be like the wife who goes camping on her own and he does mind its just that he won't do anything about it and he certainly wouldn't refuse a client because of getting home to see family...just not done,actually because he has always worked in an atmospher like this he honestly doesn't realise that there is another way

The thing is, there are some wives who do put up with all this (eg taking 4 youngsters camping on their own) simply because they put their DH's job on some kind of pedestal. I'm not directing this at the OP, as she says that she has her own life and job. But I know some mothers who are so obsessed with their partner earning big bucks that they sacrifice him having any real involvement in the home and family. It's fair enough to encourage family friendly practices where possible, but ultimately, a company that isnt like this is not going to change hugely. I would far prefer my DH and myself to have less pressurised jobs of equal standing and share the home responsibilities, than for one of us to work our butts off at the expense of seeing our children.

I suppose most of what I want to change is more to do with the wider world in which we exist,I want dh to be able to work hard at an interesting job and earn a decent living without having to kill himself in the process.Iwant the optimistic ,hard working idealist that I fell in love with at 19 to be able to fulfil the hopes and dreams that he had then and for us also to raise a healthy happy family who can be assets to that society in the future and for us to do that together and for it not to be a choice between having a family and being successful in his career am not talking flexi working and paternity leave but just a general respect for peoples family lives .

I think that is part and parcel of being in an agency.

he's not in an agency he is a lawyer!

And some of these men and women choose to work like this. I am working just about every week of the summer holiday partly through choice, except may be 3 or 4 days although it's slightly different for me as I work for myself.

Those people in their 30s - 50s with children or without who socialise every night they look very very lonely to me always. I always assume they have an unhappy home life. They are fairly noticeable, they go to every drinks do going and stay on longer than they should. They are quite sad at that age still to be doing that. Whereas my girls in early 20s they seem to see fun social life things at potential employers as a key draw for them.

Part of the problem is women. If there are legions of passive submissive women at home who do 24/7 childcare all the domestic stuff and don't work and tolerate men who are out all hours then they are in effect damaging the chances of other people, other men to say I must get home to collect from the holiday club or let the nanny get home and women other working wives or even housewives who want their husbands there most evenings. Those women should be a target for vitriol and public criticism in a sense. If they all en masse refused to allow this kind of thing it could stop over night. But they don't - they just have a minor moan about the husband and then go to the place in Cornwall for 6 weeks where he can swan along for a day or two if the fancy takes him, unless he's otherwise engaged with a big deal or the secret mistress in London.

LOL at your dh's response. Reminds me of once when someone from another was visiting ours. Come 6 pm on Friday night they said 'let's go to the pub! Don't you guys have happy hour round here?'

Without looking up from her computer, my colleague said 'yes, happy hour is when we go home to see our families'

I agree with you Xenia ... I often find myself asking, 'what do the wives of the other people on the board who have kids think about this atmosphere' ... I am vociferous about shared parenting and realistic about working life; I have a successful career of my own with my own business.

I think part of the problem I face with dh in a company like he is in is that it is exactly these kinds of wives that you describe that do tolerate a rubbish non-family-allowing working environment because they like the life their husband's job affords them.

There is a bbq coming up at the boss' in a few weeks for example and i know that not one of them will say anything about the pathetic work/life lack of balance that working in this company not permits but perpetuates.

I will be literally sitting on my hands enraged and wanting to say to he boss ... do you actually realize that you publicly endorse a great company to work for but so many of your senior employees think it actually sucks ... perhaps you should stop preening and congratulating yourselves on yet another internal survey where your singletons demonstrate a joy for a company that encourages going out on the lash and actually listens to the growing silent group who are saying, 'actually this isn't what I want anymore'.

It's the self-congratulatory double-standards most of all that I can't stomach ... what's so great about a good 'bike to work scheme' for example when if you bike home at 1830 to say goodnight to your kids you get tutted at for not joining in another post-work social and considered a shirker?

Exactly Donny. Some women see parenting in quite selfish terms. They want their husband to provide a nice lifestyle for them and the children, but fail to see that if this is at the expense of the father's relationship with his kids, then really, what's the value in it? I'm sure we all know those women who live in big houses, drive a big car and always have plenty of time for lunching/gym but whose husbands rarely get a look in. I think the only answer is more men and women refusing to tolerate it. If parents seek work and a lifestyle which allows them to share both parenting, and providing, on a more equal footing, then this type of work practice would be far more unacceptable.

But many many women do tolerate this, many of them mumsnet posters (and a few men tolerate a hard working wife too although it's usually the other way round). They are the "good" corporate wives who never complain and think the price of not seeing the husband is the money they have to spend and in fact may be they didn't really like him very much and dont' have particularly good sex with him so the more he is away the better and they build in a sense a separate life apart from him into which he briefly flits. Although that is a free choice for couples it has knock on effects for other spouses who aren't like that and it underpins the culture in some businesses.

And then there are some people I've worked with (an occasionally this has been me) who have deliberately worked at the office until 7 so that when they get home the house is all tidy and the children asleep because that's easier than the bed time routine.

I think your DH and my DP must work for the same company! Trouble is my DP refuses to say no to going. Just a recent example of his last week at work:

Thurs: 7:30 - 10pm (Team Building)
Friday: 7:30 - 9:30 (Just working)
Sat: 7pm - 10:30pm (Party)
Sunday: 11am - 9:30pm (Sales Awards)
Monday: 7:30 - 9:30 (Just working)
Tuesday: 7:30 - 3:30am (Dinner and drinks - ended up at a lapdancing bar but thats another story!)
Weds: 7:30 - 9pm (Just working)
Thurs: 7:30 - 10pm (team Building)

All of these are without partners, I think there are 1 a year with partners and none that I have seen include the whole family. And this is a big company!

Whenever I complain about this all he says is "do you think I want to be there till that time" Which I think is bullshit because he is capable of saying no. But what can you do.

I feel for you I really do!!

Sounds blardy nightmarish.

Could your dh suggest that the company starts a "family" club for employees. Where they organise dos to take the whole family to at, you know, more sociable times/places and stuff. Then he might be able to use it as an excuse for why he can't go to all the other crap singles nights etc.?? I dunno, just a thought...

Ooo er, I am 23 and single but would not want to be part of the lash club.

YANBU, people need to realise that family comes first and respect that!

Our family would not be able to function if dh or I worked like that. The only times when we did work very late were those when we weren't getting on, and when the other partner was doing the pick ups. But then as dh and I have mostly both worked I can't see how it is possible to live like this unless you have a stay at home partner, and children that to be honest you don't really like spending time with. Very sad. I don't care what sort of money working like this brings in, a change of job is the only answer.

I get the impression most city jobs are like that, but there are also other top ranked companies that aren't. He could consider staying in the same company but moving out to a more local office in a city outside of London, but that would probably be a step down in terms of money and position - or he could look for a job with a similarly ranking company in the company that is more family friendly. I've been to family picnics for PEM and Deloitte in East Anglia and thought they were good, although I couldn't say how well that is true across the whole of both companies.

Obviously this was a few decades ago but I grew up with a dad that worked in the city. Even though he did his best to be like you're DH and say no and keep reasonable hours he tells me now that he felt the price you got had to pay for the money and the position was that he never really saw us. Personally I'd say I didn't feel like I saw him enough either. I think it really took a toll on him as well as him just being absolutely knackered all the time. Eventually he gave up and started his own local company instead so he could work from home.

A know a few families who got around it by having a flat in london and a house in the countryside. City-worker lives in the city during the week and devotes every second to them, except for phone calls home at dinner time and then at the weekend - live somewhere where there is no mobile reception and have it just be family time. You might not spend as much time as you'd like with your kids, but the time you do spend is good quality.

Basically, there are a few ways you can get around it - you've just got to decide which ones you're prepared to do, because all of them involve some sacrifice. Which is the same as anything for anyone when you're trying to juggle kids and work I suppose.

I odn't like the living away in the week option. 9 times out of ten they end up having an affair. Will always remember the late night call I sometimes got at the office when I was the only one in there working of a country-hidden wife tucked away out of harm's way when I knew her husband was with my secretary or someone else.

I think it's more a question of what people are both happy with. I know couples who are both happy working hard. I work pretty long hours myself but there's that kind of culture in our family on both side and with both of our children's parents although rarely as bad as Bonif's husband's evening commitments above. Most parents do try to get home at least every few days to do a bed time or bathtime and simply because they want to. I don't like being out more than one night in a row and not seeing the children although sometimes it's 3 nights in a row which I don't like. I have a lot more control over it anyway as I work for myself.

if it can't be changed and the wife or husband is going to be continuing their hours then the other half does need to work out some way they can internally tolerate that, acceptance of those things that can't be changed.

If one partner feels too burdened at home rather than just wanting their other half there are ways to ensure you get time too - if you both have evening work things as often dual working couples have then babysitters can be arranged or even arraneg dfor 2 nights in the week where the husband is out 5 nights a week and the wife just wants 2 nights off.