To thnk the NHS is a waste of time, space, money and effort?

[NigellaTheOriginal]

I should know I work for it but that's a whole new thread.

this morning get a letter from Hospital A -

;'You didn't bring DD2 to appointment with paediatrician so you'll have to wait until December for another appointment' HUH - what appointment - I knew nothing about it.

Second letter from Hospital B -

'DD2s appointment with gastro specialist booked for next week has been cancelled and her next appointment will be in October'

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Bastard, stupid, feckers.
am fecking, bloody furious. Stupid administration shite - couldn't organise a cup of fecking tea withou screwing it up.
Will be making a number of irate phone calls.

I wouldn't want my children to see a paediatrician. I think they are useless. I'd rather have a GP any day. But then they haven't visited the doctors for a few years yet. Here we have to have them checked once a year otherwise they won't get accepted for school, camps, playschemes etc. Nuts, and an utter waste of resources.

Oh and I don't think that your statement is universally true. I used to check references for doctors coming onto UK lists in my borough, and they gave very positive reasons for wanting to work for the NHS, in particular the free at the point of care ethos. In any case all major health systems are struggling to contain costs at the moment. I don't think any of them have the answers.

i think only people who have never had to worry about paying for the cost of medical treatment have the luxury to complain about the nhs in the way the op is.
imagine, your dc falls down and breaks a bone. he is screamingin agony. do youtake him to a hospital where it will cost you the next months grocery bill, or do you feed you r other dc and do a bit of first aid on him?
when that is the choice, you realise just how wonderful the nhs is.

For a long time the NHS has been poorly managed and the money that has repeatedly gone into it to make it better has remained in a pool at the top, with the managers who cannot manage, instead of filtering down to the hardworking nurses and other lesser paid medical (and nonmedical) staff

I think its a fucking mess and would consider go abroad (and borrow what would be a fraction of the UK private costs) if I had to have serious medical attention.

Only read MrsTiddles post and just wanted to say I disagree I would - I am a NHS manager! Ok - money does filter down actually and I and all my colleagues are highly responsible - indeed obsessive about getting the best use from our resources and maximising patient care and indeed convenience. I know one or two who I consider barely competent it's true - but even then they are hard working staff who do not sit around cocking things up and lining their own pockets. They sit around cocking things up and being paid considerably less to do so than they would be paid to cock things up in the private sector. Nurses pay, and that of all staff has improved over the last few years. It still doesn't pay what they're worth but it is better.

I think it must be extremely hard and very frustrating for you, when you are working to keep things going well and you have as you say, some incompetent people around you. And the pay for nurses isn't right, its awful and their living costs in London etc etc ad nauseum (you definitely know more than I do!).

psssst - NorthernLurker - look here

I don't actually think there's enough money in the country to pay NHS staff a just reward for their efforts.

How do you pay someone enough for using years of skill to save the lives of a mother and baby with a c section and subsequent treatment? How do you pay a nurse enough for supporting someone in A&E as they learn their child has died? How do you pay a manager enough for bearing all the frustrations of their staff and all the anger of the patients they have spoken to and all the unreasonable behaviour of senior colleagues? How do you pay a GP enough for the years they spend talking to a patient, treating them, working through their problems and maybe watching them become incapably ill or die? Come to that - how do you pay the GP's receptionist enough because she sees the same things and shares the same things. How do you pay a cleaner enough for repeatedly cleaning up blood and vomit and every bodily fluid we've got, then going home and seeing on the news that our hospitals are filthy and then going back to work and doing the same again.

I'm not saying the NHS shouldn't be criticised - it should but can I ask that if it does a good job for you please write and tell them that because that's what keeps you going. I work to live - but when I know I've done a good job in the patients eyes - I live to work.

I am exaggerating of course, but I do wonder what community Paeds are for (and I have worked with a few). The specialist ones are another matter. The NHS has some incompetent and unproductive staff it is true (also a large number of incredibly hard working, skilled and committed people). However they are spread throughout the professions, and include both doctors and nurses as well as managers (I have overseen investigations into some incidents). One of the problems is that (as with much of the public sector) getting rid of people is very hard. We had a GP who was finally struck off by the GMC after many years of being a problem both clinically and professionally. Getting enough evidence to do this was difficult in the extreme. The individual was suspended for several of those years whilst investigations were ongoing. The PCT had to provide compensation for a significant time.

Statistically speaking the NHS spends less on management than most healthcare systems. It is a very large and complicated organization though, with a lot of political interference (not surprising given the cost and importance of health). It is often the changes that the government imposes that bring about the biggest costs (especially reorganisation after reorgansiation).

don't GPs get £150,000 per year now as a matter of course? I don't think they fit on this list.

I think its quite astonishing that the nhs works at all given the ridiculous restructuring, targets etc that the government keep imposing on it. In many ways its truely amazing (I have really benefited from the nhs) and yet dealing with it as a patient can be so frustrating.

No. GPs are run on a small business basis (they are all in effect privately run). Some GPs are partners in their business, and if they run things well, employ as few staff as possible and take very little holiday can earn very high incomes. Others chose to invest back into their practices by employing specialist staff and expanding the services they offer (providing some things pay better than others). Some GPs run a number of practices, so they can be quite large businesses. Others are known as salaried GPs, that is they are employed by a practice (or sometimes a PCT) and they will have much lower incomes. Many GPs work part time or on a sessional basis. It is not a poorly paid profession, but few GPs are rolling in it.

Well, yes, YABU, although you are right to be pissed off with the fuck ups that regularly occur.

Had similar recently. Long story but after over 12 years of nagging gps and having various tests and xrays they've finally realised ive got a congenital malformation ie something ive had since birth. And they've missed this for nearly 20 years.

So, finally get appointments for physio and referral to pain management clinic. Get a letter from hospital to ring and make appointment for pain clinic. I ring, get put on hold for 12 minutes. Finally speak to someone who tells me that although i've got a letter asking to make an appointment, theyve got no appointments within the time limit they are obliged ie before 3rd October. No appointments in 5 different hospitals within the pct. None. Nada. I've now got to wait for a "Manager" to ring me, at some point over the next 2 to 3 WEEKS to sort something out.

My ante and post natal experiences were pretty rubbish too.

However, all the treatment DD has had has been marvellous and fairly swift. (I'm discounting the speech therapy because that's not just NHS issues - its LEA too).

cleaners don't do body fluids. nurses do.

As nooka says the pay varies but lets just consider what the Gp actually does with their day? I don't know the half of it but I suspect something along the lines of

Get into work - paperwork, messages and queries - including at least one distressed patient who wants calling back asap.
Morning surgery: 15 ear infections, throat infections and yeast infections. A sprinkling of malingers seeking sick notes, 2 diabetics and an asthma patient and a woman whose heart is broken (not in the cardiological sense) and is hoping you can fix it.

Then meetings, paperwork and visits - to the seriously ill and housebound, a few newborn baby checks as light relief - assuming the babies are well. Very much not light relief if they aren't!

Then more surgery: 15 ear infections, throat infections and yeast infections. Some elderly folk with knackered hearts and/or circulation. A couple desperate to have a baby, a 35 year old father of 4 with a mole on his back that you very much suspect is a melanoma and a mother with a baby with a fever and a rash. Is it measles, scarlet fever, meningitis? Worst case is that childs life is in your hands right then and the day isn't over yet.

They can keep their 150 000 - I wouldn't and couldn't do that job!

VVVQ - has that manager not rung you back yet? Grrrrh! Do you want me to apologise again?

Understand your annoyance with regard to poor management and organisation.

However, YABU imo.

My experience of the NHS has been almost entirely positive, especially dd's care from peadiatricians.

Strongly disagree with comments that GPs are more competent or reliable though, I have found entirely the opposite. If I was worried about my dc's health I would sooner take them to A+E than be fobbed off by a disinterested GP.

GP repeatedly sent home dd with rehydration powder when she should have been immediately hospitalised with bronchiolitis, A+E docs recognised this straight away.

I think you know YABU-You can't write the whole of the NHS off because of one incompetent department.
I do understand your frustration though

The NHS is NOT free - we all pay for it through NI contributions and tax.

As for it being a "National" Health Service, well that's a joke, we all know that it is a postcode lottery. Where I live the NHS won't tell you the sex of your baby at your scan, 6 miles away, another health authority will.

My hospital no longer offers a nuchal scan at 12 weeks, only the triple blood test at 16 weeks, so I went and paid for it privately (well I am over 40, so I though that it was sensible)

I am 6 months pregnant and have never seen my "named" midwife once, not even for my booking in appointment. So much for taking your maternity notes to all appointments, mine weren't reading until 20 weeks!

Had a meeting with the consultant, waited 2 hours, didn't get to see him but his registar, who did not have my notes available and was relying on me having a good memory regarding the birth of my previous baby to fill out the forms.

I could go on....but I won't.

No, NL, they havent. But, the woman did say it'd be 2-3 weeks so I wont expect anything for at least 10 days.

Gp's do not routinely earn £150k some do, many dont.depends upon size of practice/skills/grade The Quality and Outcomes Framework was a review of practice,pay, and quality outcomes. The QOF was introduced as part of the new GP contract. It currently offers practices up to 1000 points if they deliver high quality on a range of services. These points attract financial resources into the practice. The majority of the points relate to evidence-based clinical interventions proved to benefit patients with illnesses such as diabetes, asthma and other long-term conditions: the remaining points are linked to the organisation and to patients? experience of the practice.

Many general GP's are self employed and hold contracts, either on their own or as part of a partnership, with their local primary care trust (PCT). The profit of GPs varies according to the services they provide for their patients and the way they choose to provide these services. Most GPs would expect to earn between £80,000 and £120,000.

Salaried GPs employed directly by PCTs earn between £52,462 to £79,167, dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience.

YABvvvU!
But I sympathise with your frustration.
Had to go to dcs school to drop something off today and on my way out I was thinking 'you (Mrs office lady) are quite the rudest person I have come accross in a long time, you eclipse all NHS receptionists I have come accross for rudeness' dh made it worse when he told me 'oh she was really polite to me!'
Sort it with the reception staff before you go home at the end of night shift are you really out of there before 9!?

The great thing about the nhs is that British people can all benefit from it. It doesn't matter whether you are rich or poor and there isn't the problem of being completely uninsurable because you have some terrible medical conditon.

In the USA people die from very simple to treat ailments due to lack of money.

My son has had a lot from the nhs. He has had a community paediatrian, physio, SALT, OP, audiology.

I think its been good that when these people make treatment decisions that their pay is not a factor. For example problems with my son's feet were treated with orthorics and stretching exercises. Prehaps a physio moviated by cash might have been tempted to have gone for quick results with a more extreme (and expensive) treatment.

My son had hearing aids on the nhs for 18 months. His hearing has improved a lot and now he doesn't need them. He still has a slight hearing loss, but the disadvantages of hearing aids outweigh the advantanges.

My FIL was prescribed hearing aids by a private audiologist. The hearing aids were extremely expensive, but have been of no use to him. My FIL is profoundly deaf and has no hearing to ampify. Unlike the nhs the private audiologist gave my fil false hope, just to earn a bit of extra commission.

YABU

I haven't read the whole thread.

Obviously much of the admin is crap but not all of it is and not all of the NHS is crap.

I'm up and about less than a week after having pioneering keyhole surgery to remove a secondary cancer from my liver. The surgery took seven hours. All we had to pay for was petrol to and from the liver centre in Basingstoke.

It's quite possible my cancer would never have got as far as this tumour at all if the private medical care I had used to try to get a faster result when I first had pain had been even vaguely competent.

I fucking HATE private medical care in this country. It's barely regulated. So much of it is still about snobbery as people assume it will be better even though it's the same people doing the work. I haven't even been particularly impressed with the admin. My aunt nearly died through negligence in a nuffield hospital twenty years ago and a colleague's husband did die through negligence about ten years ago.

Why on earth do healthy children need to see a paediatrician every month? That is not something I need from a heath service.