To think more should be done to target reading problems

[ReallyTired]

If a child does not learn to read, it does not matter how intelligent they are, they are doomed to a life of povety and social exclusion. Labels like dyslexia are almost irrelevent. A child with any IQ level needs to learn to read. I think it would be wrong to give children with low intelligence less than children with high intelligence.

There are certain children who you can tell are at high risk of reading difficulties. For example the children of parents with learning difficulties, the children of those who have no qualifications (especially GCSE English equivalent), those with heaing problems or English as an addtional language.

I think that these children should have one to one attention to help with learning to read from the start of reception. I would go as far to say that they should get substantially extra attention in the early ages before they start school.

It may well be expensive, but if it means children are employable in twenty years time then its worth it.

I used to work for this charity who trained volunteers to do just the thing you suggest RT. Working for them really opened my eyes to how many children struggle with their reading and how just a little extra help, on a regular basis can make a world of difference.

I agree that it's very shortsighted to use expense as a reason to not provide the help these children need.

think there is too much made out of reading at an early age ie before start of school or in reception .
I do agree with you that extra time should be spent with children who need this but do not agree that children of parents who dont have gcse english are at higher risk.
Dh parents both have no qulifications and his father can not read well due to undiagnosed dyslexia bit they have had 4 children and all are educated to degree or masters level with very good jobs dh being the best!!(grin)

Yanbu - It is every child's right to be able to read and write. I speak as a parent of a 12 year old ds with SEN who has a reading age of an 8 year old. My ds is struggling and is unable to fully access the curriculum. He is in mainstream school and is statemented. I worry about his future and hope he will find employment one day.

I am realistic about his prospects and will do everything possible to support him through his education and beyond.

Until there is a comprehensive reading scheme in which every child can read and write before they move up to year 3 the problem will remain.

But maybe every child is not ready to read and write fluently before they move into Year 3. The younger ones will only just have turned 7 at this stage. This is the age where they begin to learn to read and write in some other countries (with ultimately better academic results).

My ds had all available help all through infants school, but it's only now when he's 8 and ready to move up into Year 4 that reading has finally clicked for him- I expect him to have caught up with his peers by the end of next year. He has suffered badly from lack of confidence because he was expected to read too early. He was always saying that he was dim and not as clever as other children. And now he can read as well as them. He just needed longer.

Anxiously pushing children who are not developmentally ready is not the way forward to make up this country's learning deficit.

sorry, contradicting myself there. I meant:

"I expect him to have caught up with the more able of his peers by then end of next year"

and

"now he can read as well as many of them"

I agree. Given DS has a moderate language delay, I would be surprised and delighted if he doesn't turn out to have difficulties learning to read (he starts reception in Sept).

I think that extra help should be given before a child becomes disillusioned and distruptive. I think that intensive help should be given early before a child does fail.

My husband failed GCSE English FOUR times. Prehaps this is an indication that he might have problems with literacy or be dyslexic. It is impossible to diagnose dylexia accurately at he age of four, but there is lots of evidence that dylexia is herditary.

My son actually found learning to read easy. This surprised us all. I think in his case an addtional helper could be quickly allocated to a child without high risk factors who is struggling very quickly.

I think that seven or eight is too late. Its very hard to help a child who has developed behaviour problems. Even if a child is not yet ready to learn to read a helper could read them stories or help with language.

It is impossible to read a child a bed time story if you can't read yourself. Parents who can't read need help to break the cycle of illiteracy.

I agree with you RT, that early help should be set in to support children at risk. And in such cases, 7 or 8 may well be too long to wait.

What I did not agree with was Myalias' suggestion that all children should be able to read and write by age 7 and that something must be wrong if they don't. I am in favour of the Scandinavian model where formal learning doesn't really start before this age.

My ds is not at risk in any of the ways you mentioned. He comes from an academic family with an extensive home library, goodnight stories every night, no family disruption, a supportive attitude towards the school. He does not have learning difficulties. He is simply a slow developer.

All the help that the special assistants gave him at school did not help him to read before he was ready. He has never been disruptive at school. Noone has ever complained of his interpersonal skills which are excellent. But he did become disillusioned because he kept being told that there was something wrong with him. There wasn't.

If he had started school in Year 3- as his Swedish cousins do- he need never have known that he was "dim". Like his uncle, who was also a slow developer, but who didn't have to start school until he was 7, so didn't have to spend his early years struggling. He is now a successful university professor, with some 20 modern and ancient languages at his command. Who cares that he didn't learn to write until he was 8? He was allowed to believe in himself. My son is still struggling with lack of confidence after three years of constant failure.

In scandinavian countries there is very good pre school provision. Even if they are not learing reading and writing, they are still learning informally.

Children need to develop their language skills by the age of seven. The scandinavian model does this well.

I agree totally with lots of help and time being given to basic literacy and I see where you're coming from reallytired - but I do think there's a danger of sticking in simply more pressure and expectation to the system...as Cory says, and I've heard on here many times, with lots of children it is 7 or 8 years of age when they are ready to read.

Reading readiness needs to be there - the system alone can't make children read.

As with all things 'school' the system may suit the majority but for a significant minority we need to tread carefully; many of my DS' classmates can read fluently; he can't - nowhere near. I think it is a dangerous assumption to make that 7 or 8 is 'too late' - we're dealing with individuals and need to have systems with flexibility; because for this minority it can be really damaging if they are pressured to do stuff they're not developmentally ready for - much worse to have your confidence and self esteem knocked by being endlessly forced to do stuff you're no good at. If you just keep the child enthused about school, about learning, they will do the reading when they're ready and without having faced one, two or three years where their lack of reading is viewed as a problem or a difficulty.

But yes, I do agree literacy is hugely important; we can't get people educated and developing themselves fully without it.

I am currently on a voluntary reading scheme which is aimed at mostly secondary school kids. They have just introduced it to primary school kids in Y6 as a knee-jerk reaction to poor SATS results in this part of the world. In my opinion this is too late and these poor kids are having confidence crises due to their lack of success in school to date.

I have spent 20 x half hour sessions doing one to one reading, focussing on magazines, top trump cards, word games and suchlike in an attempt to interest them in literature.

Spending time with these bright, funny, clever boys has made me despair. They're about to head into bigger, even more achievement focussed schools where dropping out could be seen as cool and rebellious. I want to wave a magic wand to help them to read, but it's not going to work.

The scheme has been successful to some degree. They are more confident with their reading. They've had fun with books, rather than just seeing them as a nightmare, but I don't feel like they're armed for the world of exams.

I personally think that this support should be made available to children much earlier than Y6. I think that schools should be more flexible in their approach to reading skills. Phonetic teaching isn't suited to everyone, but our education system proceeds with a one size fits all solution. And then we wonder why we're failing to the degree we are.

I don't know what the answer is. Some kids are more than ready for education at age 4 or 5. Some aren't ready til much later. But how do you manage that in a one size fits all system like state provided education??? I'm afraid I don't know...but I am hoping to get my school to let me work with younger kids as well as the older ones. For now, that seems the only way I can help.

good post squilly...I think part of the answer is that it's not all down to schools, and no system CAN ever fit all

There are many children who are never read to or read with and where home is not a place where that will ever be valued - parents have a huge responsibility, not JUST school! 'we' failing is not just schools, it's parents too, sadly. I think this can get overlooked in our society which expects school to be everything, do everything and correct the ills of society.

most schools do some sort of reading schemes between children. so older children read with younger children. priary and secondary. 'buddy' system it is called in some schools
works well. doesnt cost much. builds confidence in both kids.

"Reading readiness needs to be there - the system alone can't make children read"

I think that the development of reading readiness is something a lot of people take for granted. In a family with well educated parents reading readiness happens by obmosis. A middle class child will typically had been read millions of books before starting school. A child in a family where everyone has learning difficulties will not have had this however caring the parents are.

"There are many children who are never read to or read with and where home is not a place where that will ever be valued - parents have a huge responsibility, not JUST school! 'we' failing is not just schools, it's parents too, sadly."

10% of adults cannot read to their own children. Its unfair to say that they are failing their children when you are asking them to do something that is truely impossible.

These parents cannot break the cycle of illeracy on their own.

ReallyTired I think this is an excellent post and am surprised at the lack of discussion on it. My DD is doing very well at reading (she is in reception) however it has struck me already that unless parents are doing a lot at home children will not progress and I have made a comment on this to staff at DDs school. I agree with you there needs to be much more resource put in however with this governments obsession with results I can't see it happening. The recent announcements about 'cathing them early' just seems so heavy handed. The system needs to engage with parents and children.

ReallyTired on Wed 02-Jul-08 20:34:26
"In scandinavian countries there is very good pre school provision. Even if they are not learing reading and writing, they are still learning informally.

Children need to develop their language skills by the age of seven. The scandinavian model does this well."

This is a very recent development in Sweden and has nothing to do with the Swedish educational success which started much earlier.

When I grew up in Sweden there was very little pre-school provision. In fact, none where we lived. I never went to any sort of nursery, pre-school etc. And Sweden led the world in educational performance in those days.

My generation developed our language skills through taking part in everyday family life, playing outdoors with our friends, squabbling in the sandpit, helping with the cooking etc. Our practical skills were developed early. I could manipulate a hammer long before I knew the alphabet.

Pre-school provision is about freeing women up to return to the workplace (which in itself I think is a perfectly acceptable goal). It isn't something every child has to go through to develop language skills. Being with your family is an excellent way of developing language skills.

Of course it depends on the family. But not on the family having higher educational qualifications. A lot of the families I grew up with were uneducated factory workers, lumberjacks etc. They developed their children's cognitive and general skills through talking to them and working with them rather than through helping out with their reading. They were still helping to develop their language skills by talking to them and teaching them about life around them.

It is only since I came to this country that I have found out that uneducated working class families have nothing to teach their children. I didn't know that as a child in Sweden- and my friends' families didn't know it either. But everybody here seems to know it.

If you want to address your kids' reading difficulties, I would recommend the rock solid evidence based online reading programme www.headsprout.com/.

It is the subject of my MSc (I am a salt).
Will cost you about £100 but worth every penny. My own child presently roaring through it. She loves it so much she does a bit before breakfast everyday.

You will not find anything better to this. I promise.

Cory - I agree. It's good to have something to talk about then when you can talk about it maybe you'll want to write about it also. Purpose for writing seems to have disappeared. Ds's 1st nursery sat them down at 3, gave them worksheets and tried to get them to write. Ds was labelled as 'immature' and that he had a 'lack of concentration' -he was 3 We transferred him to a new nursery and he has just completed the year and loves it. They have the traditional home corner that is transformed into something different each week and the focus on emergent writing. Ds has come on so much since he left the first nursery. He has an amazing vocabulary and due to his 'having a go' at writing he has now made the link between what he 'writes' is readable and related to the words I've been reading to him for years. He is now desperate to learn his sounds and is starting to blend sounds into cvc words. When I taught a Head I knew just wanted the year 6's to get to level 3 (this was a tough, underachieving school for many of the reasons Reallytired stated a lot of them couldn't read properly) as she said they would survive secondary school in that they could at least access the curriculum. A huge problem was self esteem as the children felt they were failing so didn?t want to have a go in the first place and ?voila- That?s when you get the behavioural problems that then lead to absenteeism. Get them interested early but in a fun and purposeful way, especially for boys.

moondog -Really fun site I would only have a slight concern as it's American. Genuinely interested to know whether your dd says the phonics (I only looked at the 'an' episode admittedly) in an American accent?

We say 'an' as in the name Ann but he was saying is ay-an.

cory,
There is a difference between not having high educational qualifications and not being able to read. Many factory workers or lumberjacks can read. It takes a certain level of intelligence to work in a factory or cut a tree down.

In the UK there is a major underclass of people who are completely unemployable. Prehaps Sweden is lucky in not having this problem.

I think a major problem is the availablity of children's TV. There are some lazy parents who just shove their children infront of the TV and never talk to them.

It's not an issue (and I say that as a highly experience speech nad language therapist.)

It looks like nothing but good jolly fun but beleive me, it has cost $$$$ to develop over about 10 years and every tiny step of it has been trialled, adjusted, trialled again and so on.

muppetgirl on Wed 02-Jul-08 22:46:48
"It's good to have something to talk about then when you can talk about it maybe you'll want to write about it also. Purpose for writing seems to have disappeared."

You sound exactly like my friend who used to teach in a school in East London. He told me that what his pupils needed was not more writing lessons but something to write about.

It's just that as a teacher when children learn songs with an American accent they sing with an American accent. It's interesting that when they learn sounds said in an American accent they don't repeat them with the accent. I find that fascinating...