Public monuments for women who died in childbirth.

[Wiseplumnet]

AIBU to ask that beside the monuments in every village, town and city in this country ( UK) to men who gave their lives defending ( or attacking) in war, there should also be monuments to woman who died giving birth. Just had an argument/ discussion with my brother about women having had it 'easier' through history because they don't have to fight wars.I argued that the historical equivalent to this is are the woman who died ( or were seriously wounded) giving birth to these men.

Youre both wrong.

Erm no , those monuments are for fallen soldiers has absolutely nothing to do with women who die during childbirth

How ridiculous.

Lol what?

No.

I think it's a nice idea, actually. Maybe not in every village next to war memorials - but it's no bad thing to remember the difficulties and struggles women have faced in the past.....

Where would you put them though?Imagine one plonked outside a hoslital...

You’re about right on the numbers - I think Jonathan Sumption’s history of the 100 years war suggested that statiscally men in the Middle Ages had about a 15 % chance of dying in any battle they were in and it was about the same risk for women dying in childbirth.

however the monuments only really cover people
who died in the 1st and 2nd world wars, not everyone who ever died in any war.

Ridiculous, anyway women have died in wars not just since the 90’s when they became eligible for the military. Behind enemy lines too

I think it’s silly and woke nonsense gone mad

war memorials commemorate those who gave their lives in defence of others. They were also conscripted against their own will at times and had to fight and die through no choice of their own for a foreign cause.

Women have been giving birth since the dawn of time. It is - in this day and age - largely a choice to have children.

I would rather the money be spent on better Maternity care for women to reduce the risk of injury or death during birth

I think my idea is more of a rhetorical idea than about there being actual monuments for women who lost their lives in childbirth. However my brother's argument must have hit a raw nerve in me. I know woman have lost their lives in war too, and that woman are part of the armed services now. The point I was trying to make is that until relatively recently every time a women went into labour she was ' going over the top', as in men in the trenches. The outcome of labour could be catastrophic for a women and they had no control over their fertility the same men didn't over conscription ( unless a conscientious objector) in fighting wars. PTSD caused by labour and giving birth is only just starting to be recognised. Some woman endured endless pregnancies and birth injuries. The surviving male babies born to these women would sometimes end up killed or injured in war. I am not saying that their sacrifice is not meaningful and I always wear a poppy in remembrance. I suppose just being human, especially if you were poor and had few choices could be crap for men and women.

The two things are like chalk and cheese.

Wanting children or wanting to save a country under attack?

Totally incomparable.

Even I can see that's not a good idea!

You are being silly. Why not a monument to cancer deaths or road traffic accidents? Or small pox or diabetes. Childbirth death was usually a medical issue and something almost always preventable these days. Young men being sent off to fight for their country is something everyone in that country should be respectful of and grateful for. It's not just those that died either, what about those that suffered life long injuries. Or those that killed other humans and have to live forever with that knowledge.

These two things are so incomparable it’s actually irritating me.

Why in earth did your mind go from war- childbirth specifically?

Why not domestic violence? Heart disease? Cancer?

Honestly sounds like a shit argument between siblings that escalated to ridiculous proportions.

Well, your brother needs serious re-education around women's suffering and "having it easier" over the centuries. That goes without saying. And there is a distinct lack of statues to women in the UK and the world in general. So you've got that much right OP. But this isn't the way to go about it. Apart from anything else it wouldn't work on a practical level as medical records around death in childbirth would've been sketchy, unlike army records for those who died in war. But more monuments to recognise women's achievements/struggles etc, definitely yes to that.

I would disagree that it was ever historically a 'choice' for women to have children.

Interesting

and wouldn’t it be nice to celebrate people who did good things rather than people who fight ? Those soldiers thought they were doing their duty as did those women in many cases - women expected to keep having children until they had the required number and type , those who had no control over their reproduction because it’s very very recent that birth control existed and it’s very recent that rape was considered possible in marriage

women have died in childbirth and often fashion and a belittling of women have made the death rate higher than it should be

It isn't a competition. Lots of (mostly young) men died horribly and witnessed horrific things during WW1 and WW2. That should be acknowledged and remembered without any whataboutery. Women made major contributions to the war effort too, and that should be and is, acknowledged separately. What on earth childbirth has to do with it, I don't know.

I don't see it as a competition either. I said in my post that I wear a poppy in commeration of the sacrifice that mostly young men, as you say ,made fighting wars both just and unjust. I am not suggesting memorials are taken down. Can't we honour the deaths of both men and women who had little say in their destiny?

Has your brother ever fought a war? Or given birth?

It’s red pill, incel type stuff. Internet is booming with it. A mindset that women are sly, cowardly, self interested drama queens who exist to make false rape accusations and bleed men dry through child maintenance. LOL

There is a SANDS memorial garden and the Teardrop Sculpture trail at the National Arboretum to do with childbirth and baby loss. Maybe you could start a fundraising campaign to have a tribute to mothers who have died during childbirth ?

On Remembrance Sunday we read out all the names of the fallen from our villages, from the Boer Wars to the Second Gulf War.

'Remembering Together' Sculpture Trail