To contact elderly neighbours daughter

[Lastqueenofscotland2]

I live next door to a very elderly woman, who essentially lives on a chair in one room with carers coming 3/4 times a day.

I’ve had some gripes with them directly before, they have a sanitary bin for her incontinence products in their front garden which they are obviously meant to shut property and rarely do, which with a hot summer was exceptionally unpleasant and I was worried about it attracting rats. This generally has improved.

However I was cleaning my windows on my extension this morning, and saw into this ladies kitchen and it is appalling. Absolutely filthy, like the sort of thing you’d see on a TV show, sink full of filthy, mouldy dishes, stuff all over the floor, piles of crap, open food etc.

I don’t wish to bash the carers, she was not the nicest woman on the planet when she was younger and imagine this combined with some likely dementia and poor health means she’s unlikely to be super pleasant to be around now. However I don’t think having an unwell, elderly woman in these conditions is safe or sanitary. I don’t know who arranges the care (ie is it council or family) but I do have her daughters number.
I suspect the house is generally in poor repair as we have had issues with it leaking into mine, and ended up repairing their roof as there was a reluctance to pay anyone to do it.

Her daughter is pleasant enough but not remotely local and on the few times I have raised concerns about her mum she’s seemed a bit dismissive about it… but surely she should know if her mum is living in squalor?

I’d make a referral to adult social care directly.

This, it sounds like the family are not that bothered or her house would be liveable. The carers will only have so much they can do with the time and resources they are given, the bin not being closed is laziness but you can say to the carers directly.

You don't know the family dynamics, the daughter may not care. You should call social services directly.

Carers probably don't have time to clean and tidy and I doubt it's part of their job remit anyway. Sounds like the daughter doesn't care much either, so as others have said, contact adult social care and explain the situation to them.

It might not be that the family don't care. If the old lady has capacity her family can't make her accept any help she doesn't want.

My mum lives like this, but she refuses any help, from us or the carers she has from time to time. She has capacity. There is nothing we or adult social care can do. We must look awful to other people, but there is nothing we can do about it. I'm not saying that this is the case here, but it's not always the children, carers or social cares fault.

I too would call adult social services with your concerns. Do you know the woman has dementia, or you are guessing? She might have full capacity and refuses to let the carers clean/tidy.

I used to visit patients at home (not as a carer) and if the person has full capacity- you can't do alot in terms of cleaning unless they agree. I also saw many, different family dynamics. Some adult children have distanced themselves from parents due to multiple reasons- childhood abuse, neglect, drink/drugs etc.

Yes you are right they can't force anything on her but it doesn't sound like she is capable of physically doing anything so maybe a cleaner or a good clear out is needed,

This.

Contact social services.

I am sure people used to think badly of me when I was the daughter in this situation with my Mum. The truth was my mum had schizophrenia and was an alcoholic and I didn’t suddenly owe her care just because she was old and unwell. I am also disabled myself and have a son with autism. I arranged carers for her and when she became terminally ill I got continuous healthcare funding for her which meant she got full time care in a nursing home eventually but I wasn’t about to step in and provide anymore than I could physically and mentally manage.

I agree I would contact Adult Social Services.

The carers will have a list of tasks, which are likely to be providing food and drink, and doing personal care. They are unlikely to have time to clear up and anyway they can only do it if she allows them to. If she tells them not to, they can't.

She may have been offered a cleaner and refused.

SS need to establish if she still has the capacity to make those decisions.

My grandmother had dementia was very much against her carers 'interfering' so it fell to us family to do the clearing out and cleaning, and even we had to wait until she had a nap so she didn't get angry and tell us off.

Thank you all, adult social services hadn’t crossed my mind so I will get in touch this week

carers are likely to be attending to deal with your neighbour's personal needs - they are not cleaners

To also confirm I am aware the carers won’t be cleaning but they will be prepping her meals and I would have assumed that may have entailed washing up a plate/putting uneaten food in the bin/ hygenically disposing of an incontinence product.

However it hadn’t occurred to me that if she is resistant to this then they won’t do it.

My mum is not getting any younger and the thought of her living like this I find very distressing but appreciate family dynamics are all different and difficult.

I'm a home carer. We can do light housework tasks, such as washing up, dusting, hoovering etc.
But, we can't de-clutter or deal with abject squalor as you describe.

In any event, we can't do anything without consent.

Call social services.

My Mum has dementia and lives independently. She is still deemed to have capacity so we can’t override her decisions. When she briefly had carers, they had to ask before they could do things and she always said no.

Like a PP, we try to do things when Mum is out as otherwise she becomes very angry and distressed. But it is a battle and causes my sibling and I a lot of distress as the woman my mother was, would be appalled at how she is living existing now.

So yes, report to ASS, and tell the daughter, but sadly, don’t expect to see much change in my experience.

Agree.

Agree go direct to social services.

If her daughter isn’t around and you say she wasn’t the nicest of women before she got elderly, chances are their relationship is strained.

Unfortunately getting sick doesn’t mean you automatically become a nice person and are forgiven for everything you did pre sickness.

Just think its important to point out that if carers are attending and she is not consenting to clean up then that should trigger adult safeguarding (carers to report), because clearly living in squalid hazardous conditions would be endangering her health and safety. A specific capacity assessment should be done just in relation to the squalor to determine if she can tell you yes she knows she is putting herself at risk of disease but doesnt care or whether she has no idea of the likely consequences for her health. It all would need carefully documented to determine if she has capacity to make an unwise decision snd choose to live in squalor (but this is still self neglect and covered under care act 2014), or, if she has lost judgement and insight, in which case adult safeguarding have a duty to take best interest action (clean up). Capacity isnt a "she has it" or "she hasnt it", it is decision specific and time specific.

Many carers assume nothing can be done because the person refuses help — but safeguarding exists precisely for situations where cognitive impairment prevents someone from keeping themselves safe.

Report it to social services. But to be honest lots of elderly people live like this and there’s nothing they can do if she has full capacity and living in a privately owned property.

This. As soon as you can please.

Social services referral

Just don't make the daughter feel bad. My friend had neighbours contacting her about her mum, and obviously thought she was being negligent but the mother was abusive and always had been.

Yes this. If the daughter is dismissive then it's pointless contacting her

I think contacting adult social services is best course of action。 Having said that I have very little faith in the system , it isn’t joined up and many of those agencies involved seem to spend their time referring things to each other but I think that is the starting point.