To really worry about the future of homeschooled children?

[AgeingMillennial]

Please don’t think this is a goady thread designed to rile the masses about home education. I’m very much not referring to children with SEN whose parents are homeschooling because they’re desperate, or ‘serious’ homeschoolers who do an incredible job and produce very well educated kids by following a dedicated programme. I follow several such families on social media and their energy and commitment is way beyond anything I could do.

However I’m noticing a huge uptick in people ‘deregistering’ their kids to promote a kind of off-grid, traditional lifestyle on social media. Not because the child is struggling or unhappy at school but ‘I want to spend more time with them’, ‘the government want to create tax paying robots’, ‘I don’t want the state to raise my kids with transgender ideology’ etc.

The problem is the ‘homeschooling’ is then very substandard and then consists mostly of nature walks, crafts and visits to National Trust properties. All very wholesome but the sort of things most families do at weekends anyway. They might do a couple of pages of the sort of workbooks you find in WH Smith, but that’s it. Where there are siblings they all do the same basic things, none of it tailored to be specific to their age.

AIBU to worry about the future of these kids and to cynically wonder if it’s a ‘social media stream’ in many cases?

I’m a teacher but my daughter is home educated. Attained 5 GCSEs by Year 10, with only one lesson of English weekly, so pretty much self-taught. Now in Year 11 and has a great social life (all school/college friends from 14-18 she knows from the past or through clubs). Started an A-level and much less pressure on this year as she already has what is needed for college. Gets to rest, follow her own interests and do “extra” things that school children don’t get to do. Of course, there are things like school plays and sports teams she misses out on but thats about it. She is way more of a self-starter than many her age as a result of home ed and is arguably more mature than most. She would now struggle to get along in a busy school environment but im pretty sure her working life isnt going to look like school- that’s not her at all! She did 6 years in school and is in her 6th year out of school.

My kid is now in the sixth form, but 18 years ago when I was pregnant, long before TikTok etc, I read a great deal about home schooling, and unschooling.

as ever, it’s the level of the parents’ education that seems to count.

I have a friend, both parents have PhDs, they’ve home schooled brilliantly.

In the event, I sent my kid to school since I realised I wouldn’t cope! As it happens we both have PhDs and yes, she’s done brilliantly at her school too.

But what does brilliant even mean? I’m basing it on exam grades. However, luckily, she also has a rich social life, but so do my friends homeschooled kids.

My conclusion, whatever you do probably depends on a great number of things. An interest in learning and an aptitude for exams will mean your child will thrive academically, which ever path you take. In terms of social lives/happiness of kids, I really think sending to school is more risky than homeschooling since how your child gets on will depend on the school, its ethos, the cohort. I saw this in the transition from happy little primary to massive secondary.

So you think it's ok for schools to spend 12 years educating pupils and not provide an education to SEN pupils because they can not adapt to meet needs?

Parents do want their children to do better but experience shape is. If you spent 12 years in school learnt nothing and was miserable you would think doing better would be for your child to have a less miserable childhood.

Ironically, I quite liked school, but did now some peers who had absolutely rubbish school lives. I could never have predicted how awful my own child experience would be but having witnessed this and met barrier after barrier in trying to get their needs met I can totally understand why a parent in the above example would home ed.

I didn't want to home ed, and we spent to long trying to get the LA/School to provide what was needed before home ed became the only option left.

There was a mum at DDs primary who clearly had some learning issues and couldn’t read/write very well, has never worked. What she has done is pushed her DD into going to school and even got tutors for her. She’s doing an apprenticeship now. mum has been and done some functional maths and English courses.
If school failed you the answer isn’t to pass that failure on.

Friend didn’t get the secondary she wanted for her son so pulled him out entirely. He spent 2 years helping her with her childminding business and playing computer games and ‘looking at bitesize’
They had a home visit and completely hoodwinking the woman and then was furious she had even been round.
Luckily he did get into a school and was able to catch up.

I agree. It makes no bloody sense. DD2 had to be taken out of school due to SEN (and various serious ongoing issues) and managed to get her GCSE English and Maths at a 4 each with tutors. She could then though only go onto a Level 2 course, which is the equivalent of GCSEs. Yet there is no way in the state system to get a few more GCSEs as they only care about English and Maths, which they make them redo endlessly if they are not in DD2's position.

There were also very few Level 2 courses at all available locally. It became a moot point anyway as she dropped out of college, finding it too much like secondary school. It may have been a moot point for her, but it felt like she was choosing the least worst option for the course rather than something she really wanted to do, which didn't help.

Everything locally is aimed at the academic route.

DD2 is not a NEET as she has a job which also providers her with training. She won the Employee of the month award in September and has a great work ethic, in spite of all her struggles with ADHD and ASD. She masks very well and comes across pretty confident and eloquent most of the time, and has a nice group of friends. She also learned to drive very quickly and passed her test first time with flying colours.

Also since we withdrew her from school and we replied to the letter from the HE team no-one has once ever followed up to find out what she is doing post 16. I guess they have bigger fish to fry, but it makes you wonder how some kids get on when they don't have DD2's advantages. As we have a million NEETs I'd say badly.

Doing better for your children would involve seeing they get a better education than the parents had.

Not a far worse one.

It's one thing leaving school illiterate, but quite another to insist on your DC being taught by illiterate adults.

There's not much of a fighting chance there.

But you are assuming that 12 years in school miserable, learning nothing is more educational than 12 years of home ed with many many different experiences

You are assuming that school would achieve an education where you can not know that especially when SEN is present. In order to get support in school now it is such a battle that unless the parents know their rights and how to work within the system they aren't going to get any support.
We tried for years and got no support in place and I was aware of the process, educated and worked within education and we didn't manage it either.

You also have no idea how they manage literacy. Maybe the children have had a tutor, maybe they get taught by an literate relative. Maybe the children just can't learn to read due to a underlying issue.

However, as always if you have genuine concerns of wellbeing or education neglect these should be reported.

I think some HE parents don't realise how much the world has changed. See the constant insistence dcs can get into a good university to do a degree without any qualifications. True in the past, but not now.

There is a HE parent in the UK who has followed up in all these recent stories and says they all turned out to be false. Sometimes people have managed to get onto an access course that is for people who are bright, but whose education failed them. This can lead to a degree course. But you still need GCSE maths and English to get onto an access course.

Similarly with apprenticeships. These are very competitive. Unless you are looking at the type of apprenticeship like retail, where it's really been paid a very low wage for doing an entry level job, then yes you need qualifications to get onto an apprenticeship.

kids left to their own devices will
quickly work out what actually interests them and can be incredibly good at teaching themselves about pretty much anything. We have autonomously home educated and my eldest actually ended up with 224 UCAS points and will be going to uni next year. Pretty sure that’s more than the average schooled child and no need to force them to do anything, all interest based and things they chose to do!

@Theatreobsessed imagine how much she could achieve if her education was facilitated and not just left to figure it out herself.

Some children who are very self motivated do figure it out themselves. They post in groups for people critical of home education asking for advice on what they need to do, what online resources to use and curriculum to follow. But most parents realise if you HE that means as a parent you have to take responsibility

I would add the caveat that they still need an interested, engaged and resourceful parent to help them get what they need in order to follow these interests.

My child has said they won't send any future children to school.
Their experience of school was horrendous and I would never have thought schools could be so damaging until we experienced this ourselves.

They are adamant that they would not put their child through what they went through.
I would not want any grandchildren to go through what my child went through either.

I don't think anyone can really understand this unless they have experienced it first hand. I remember years ago before my own children a colleague going through it and internally rolling my eye because I didn't really believe them at the time.
When school works for a child it is such a different experience to what some of us experience.

Yes I definitely agree parents need to be feeding any sparks of interest and facilitating things like access to exams but this can be done arguably better in a home ed environment free from the constraints of a school curriculum. My eldest got
their first gcse (level 7) at 12 because it was a subject they were really passionate about (ancient civilisations). That’s far harder to facilitate in the constraints of a one size fits all classroom.

@Scamworried children and child free adults say a lot of things about how they would bring up children that does not actually happen when they do have children

Surely the vast majority of those parents are a product of the US education system?

Lol of course but having witnessed first hand just how detrimental school was and how much damaged it caused my child. How much they are still recovering from school after a few years out - I think that this is slightly different to someone saying I won't let my child eat sweets or watch telly.

I would say it's more akin to being abused for years by a family member and not allowing that family member access to your own children

I’m a maths tutor and most of my kids I teach in the week are home ed. Most of them are SEN, and they are getting a way better education than they would in mainstream. Most of them were bullied badly, and ultimately just had to be removed from the environment for their own mental (and sometimes even physical) health.

Over the years I have seen an increase in people home educating for other reasons including some that I personally file under “conspiratorial nutter” reasons, but at the end of the day my job is to teach the kid maths and make sure they’re up to speed. Obviously my sample is biased - the actual certified nut cases who really are educationally neglecting their kids probably don’t believe in maths or thinks it’s a government conspiracy.

Parents should have to sit tests to ensure they are qualified to teach. They should be able to pass their year 6 SATs (if home schooling primary) and all core subject GCSEs (if home schooling secondary). If they don’t pass then their children must attend school.

@GreenCaterpillarOnALeaf of course you think the kids are getting a good maths education. You are teaching them.

That's absolutely rubbish

Interestingly, 1 subject I took at secondary I did not get at all. I didn't understand any of it.
It is however linked to an area of study that interests my children. They need to pass this subject in order to progress in their interest.

As my one child has such a bad school experience - this being taught to them by an actual tutor wasn't working as it caused flashbacks to school.

So I teach them. I have had to learn what I couldn't at school before I can facilitate their learning. It is working remarkably well.

The trouble is, if you don't spell out how you got there, some readers imagine a child in the sofa with an iPad teaching themself to GCSE level.
People really struggle with imagining what is possible in a home ed environment.

You should sit the GCSE to check you’ve learned the required level to now teach it.

Why would I do that when I don't need to?

My children passing is evidence that they have reached the standard needed.

Additionally, schools often use non subject specialists to teach now. A old colleague teaches 3 languages at her current school, fluent in only one of them. One she hadn't done prior to starting teaching it. She does have an aptitude for languages and said she only needed to be one step ahead of the pupils..

I think, if we were ever to go down this very questionable and somewhat dystopian route, the first step would be for parents to sit tests to show they are capable of basic parenting. So many people who have children clearly do not have the capacity or knowledge of how to meet their basic emotional and physical needs. Parents being qualified to Home Ed their children to A Level standard is far less of a worry as a society than the many parents who don't know how to keep their children safe from harm!

Home Ed parents do not need to be experts in what their children are learning either. Home Ed children are often self motivated, they will read books, research and learn and talk about subjects that interest them with friends. My child wants to sit GCSEs so we outsource some of their learning and have online group tuition and in person workshops.

Exactly. It's horseshit and gaslighting suggesting that it is the child's fault and not the system if they didn't get their maths and English GCSEs.

If a child is regularly attending school from the age of 4/5 until 16 they should be guaranteed their maths and English GCSEs as a minimum. If they don't, it is the system that has failed, not them.