to think this would be totally unacceptable in a "white" rapper

[macdoodle]

Am genuinely not sure but left me with a deep feeling of unease...
Lovely day out with DD1 (nearly 7) - were down bay area (summer festival type thing) - was an asian rapper on stage (?bollywood type famous person).....anyway was pleasant atmosphere - vast majority of audience were asian (as was clearly well known asian performer)...but as multicultural area fair spattering of other races (I am non asian FWIW)....and everyone having good time - DD1 bopping along waving hands in the air (as instructed by said rapper)...
Anyway next thing he shouts/raps very loudly - " if you're proud to be asian wave your hands in the air" - and atmosphere changes significantly with a roar from the asian crowd and a sense of unease from others ....
DD1 looks at me a bit bewildered and says "mum do I have to stop waving my hands" (as obviously she can't be proud to be asian as she isn't)....
Wasn't really sure what to say to her and some of the asian audience nearby even looked a bit awkward - I have always taught her that all races are equal no matter colour, race, sex etc etc....
Anyway we left - it wasn't fun anymore
Now I have no problem with being proud to be asian (and NO offence intended to anyone of any race)....BUT I am trying to teach my DD that everyone is equal ....
Was just wondering what would have happened if a white rapper had said "wave your hands in the air of you're proud to be white" ...and how this is considered any more acceptable

I don't really 'get' the being proud thing. I am white, british and a woman and whilst I am happy to be all these things I don't see it as something to be proud of. If I was a black Italian man I wouldn't hang my head in shame and yearn to be a white british woman.

I don't think a white rapper would have got away with it but maybe there have been a lot of complaints about the asian rapper. It was a very stupid thing to do in mixed company.

Not sure why being 'proud to be asian' means that anyone is not equal.

The context, anyway, is the racism which still exists and still rears it's ugly head to snarl at asians, amongst others. that is the context in which an asian rapper would have a little 'big up' moment.

Surprised it spolt your afternoon - did he say anything specifically anti anyone else?

I can understand your sense of alienation and how it would be felt the more keenly because of your little ones enjoyment and her sense of unity up to that point. Absolutely.

It didn't spoil our afternoon - just made me feel uncomfortable - kinda brushed over it with DD1....was genuinely wondering whether I was BU by feeling uncomfortable ??

Well a rap act - with the frequent foul stuff said about women in the genre - is perhaps exactly the kind of context in which I might want to say 'well i'm proud to be a woman'!

Well I don't think they would say "wave your hands in the air if you're proud to be white" but they might say "Wave your hands in the air if you're proud to be British" and I don't have a problem with that.

I can see how it got a bit uncomfortable with your situation but I'd maybe have used that analogy with my 7 year old son - maybe say "It's like we're proud to be Irish" - it's OK IMO.

Also, think of the Proms, Land of Hope & Glory, Rule Britannia and all that....it's OK to be patriotic & proud & it doesn't equal or incite racial division.

What do you think? Am I talking bollocks? It wouldn't be the first time!

He didn't say anything offensive at all about anyone - was quite good and really had the crowd going - was disappointed he felt the need to target his asian fans when there were clearly other races enjoing the show !

Makes sense to me, Doodle .

In pantos they always shout 'put up your hand if you're from Livepool' etc etc ...

Hmmmm, missed opportunity to fully embrace & include everyone I guess.

That's just it doodle. The proms is often derided for being jingoistic because of it's patriotic material. In fact hasn't it been forced to tone down the patriotism?

I like Bill Hicks's take on patriotism. (It's a bit silly to be all proud of the fact that your parents happened to shag in a particular country. If they put a picture of your parents shagging on the national flag people might be less patriotic.)

TY Blu

Yup Doodle I get that....but thing is he didn't say British/Welsh (we're in Wales)...he said Asian and DD isn't Asian (even she knows that no way she could be clearly ).....

LOL at BBint.

The thing is, the rapper wasn't being jingo-istic, supremacist and showing off Asian countries - the context is the racism that Ssian people xperiecne - it's like saying 'whatever happens, how ever bad it gets, be proud'.

Probably a bit crass on a relaxed afternoon gig - but that'll be rappers for you - not generally subtle, IME.

big difference between expressing 'pride' when your people have a long history of oppression, racism etc (hence black pride, gay pride etc) and pride in being part of the white race imo.

I don't think anyone was being excluded here, plenty of white people take part in anti-racist movements etc and I would have just told your ds to wave his hands in the air if he felt like it

Look.

My child is half Asian.

By the age of four he had been called 'chocolate face' on a campsite, seen numerous crass depictions of asian people, haad a woman ask if he was 'one of those muslims', and if he was awake might have heard his dad describe how terrified he was walking home late one night the night of the tube bombings and have a car drive slowly alongside him .

That's why sometimes people remind each other to be 'proud'.

Not an accusation at you, macdoodle, (by the rapper, I mean) and maybe he should develop his crowd rousing skills a bit...but y'know, it's DIFFERNT. Until there is no racism, you can't just live in the luxury of pretending there isn't.

Nothing wrong with a bit of cultural bonding, imo. I think it probably wasn't meant to make you and your dd feel excluded, just, as blu says, to remind people who often historically and currently face racism that they are as fab as the next person and have unique and exciting cultural backgrounds to celebrate. Proud to be white has different connotations because white people aren't the minority. Plus to be truly culturally accurate for me personally, the rapper would have to say "Wave your hands in the air if, though acknowledging the imperial and cultural oppression of the white English people, you are not actually unproud to be white or English as there are some not quite so bad bits you suppose like eccentricity and marmite, on the rare occasions you give it much thought" or somesuch, which is not very pithy or catchy.

i doubt very much if the rapper would have cared if your child had waved his hands.

Scummymummy - you'd make a shit rapper but that was funny.

Harpo - The Irish are white and got a seriously oppressive kicking in the not so distant past!

Your post reads as if being white denies you the right to be proud of your roots - that's not what you meant though, is it? I'm a serial misjudger of tone & meaning on here

Blu, you've made some good points. DD is mixed race (afro-caribbean/white) too and the notion of pride is very important to us as a family. Her dad (my ex) constantly reminds her to be proud of who she is and what her background is and as a result she is extremely happy with her identity and (as yet) has none of the issues that mixed race children sometimes have with wanting to be white/have blonde/straight hair etc.

My dcs are mixed race. They have had racism from both sides. There is no way that I am going to teach them to be proud of their fathers culture but to be ashamed to be half white. This guy clearly made people uncomfortable and changed the mood of the festival and unless it was an asian music festival then trying to segregate the audiance and make children feel uncomfortable was not a nice thing to do. When you are in mixed company you should act accordingly.

Of course he wouldn't
But I don't see how because Asians face rascism which I have no doubt they do (though not from me)...it is ok to make my DD feel excluded ...I do have some experience of rasism though being Jewish/went to a Jewish school so trust me have faced my fair share of trouble/rascism - I still don't "feel" it was the right thing to do...but also think I might BU and over reacting a little - I think if I had been alone I wouldn't have even noticed - but the fact that DD did (you know mother cub and all that IYKWIM??)

no, doodle, not what I meant at all. Sorry if it read that way.

whereare ...you know I think you might have it - I think thats what made me feel so uncomfortable ...not the being proud bit...but the unsaid implication that you shouldn't be proud to be white...oh my head hurts I think I am overthinking this and no doubt DD1 will have forgotten all about it by the morning

Nothing wrong with the rapper. Just something wrong with a world in which you are supposed to be ashamed of being white.

I do understand the attempt to make a distinction, but I think it's wrong.