To be annoyed nobody mentioned who started the war

[Normalized]

Recently on YouTube the Oxford Union Channel released a debate titled this house believes Israel never really wanted peace. I'm not going to go through the arguments back and forth as anyone can watch it, however what's really annoyed me is that's not a single debater, including on the Israel side, mentioned who actually started the war.

There was a lot of talk whether Israel did truly ever want peace or not, but nobody actually spoke of the fact that Israel never started any wars. It was the Arabs and Palestinians who started first the Civil War in 1947, then Israel's war of independence in 1948. I would think the onus for peace is on the party who actually started all the wars.

It's such a weird debate to pull up Israel for 'never truly wanting peace' while completely ignoring the role of the other side who actually started all the wars.

Why does this conflict receive so much attention despite not even coming close to being among the ten deadliest conflicts of the past 50 years?
I think we all know why

This is her paragraph what did she mean? She didn't mean antisemitism, she clarified that if she meant that should have said that. So whats is the reason that we all supposedly know of?

You are attempting to excuse vile behaviour. It is not oppression in Gaza, it is fear - fear of Hamas.

Ah, I’d missed that. It still seems to me that first post was clear (and the second one evasive, therefore).

"this house believes Israel never really wanted peace" ... Israelis certainly want the West Bank .. that's very clear.

Hopefully people remember this going forward, as they should with terrorist states and their proxies including Iran, Russia, etc.

THIS!!!

That is a very broad statement.

A lot of people from Catholic communities in NI want to reunited with the Republic of Ireland.

Obviously not the British settlers but the Irish community.

Many worry about losing the NHS but that’s probably the deepest worry they have, they know the risk of losing the NHS.

Many in the republic worry about the reaction of the loyalists as they like to burn everything when they’re upset.

United Ireland referendum is not happening soon, Andy Burnham declared the vote "off the table" during his visit to Northern Ireland in August 2026

It is wisely off the table for now due to fears of a “conflict”.

The wages, pensions and benefits, lifestyle is much better in the Republic of Ireland.

The focus for reunification is on the table.

Considering the reason for what has happened in Gaza for the last (almost) 3 years was Palestinians invading Israel and carrying out an ACTUAL genocide with hostages, and in Lebanon because Hezbollah attacked Israel in solidarity with the Palestinians, it was extremely disingenuous not to mention this at the Oxford 'debate' yes, but then I've seen other 'debates' at Oxford where it seems the whole premise of inviting the pro-Israel side is to be inflammatory towards them.

I don't know why right wingers bother to accept invites to Oxford Union. They are either boycotted or disrupted by the new fascists.

Yes the conversation is ever ongoing

But right not, not what the majority want

But the main point is, NI is a sovereign country and one of 4 countries that make up the UK, its not owned, colonised or controlled by the UK, it is the UK

carrying out an ACTUAL genocide with hostages

Neither Israel nor Hamas in Gaza carried out genocide in Gaza. ‘Genocide’ is thrown around with very little understanding it seems. Killing 50 or even 5000 hostages is reprehensible but not genocide - unless those 5000 hostages represent the last of those peoples. Equally, killing 20,000 civilians in a war is not genocide unless they were the last of those peoples and you are trying to wipe them out. Genocide doesn’t just mean nasty people killing people, even a lot of people.

Or in one case lectured on how lucky they were that the Oxford Union had employed security to stop irate Muslims violently attacking them for saying Islam is not a religion of peace….

For those thinking that I[m a name-changer, I[m a Brit living in Switzerland! I[ve travelled to Jordan (Oman, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia and Libya among many other places)..Israel was siphoning more of the water from the river Jordan, about half of Jordan[s population are of Palestinian origin! Chased out of their homeland by the brave "settlers"!

‘Genocide’ is thrown around with very little understanding it seems.

Quite. Maybe you should look up the definition. Give you a hint - Intent.

It wasn't only Hamas who carried out the genocide in Israel btw. Thousands of Palestinian civilians joined in.

With a few UN related employees thrown in for measure.

Attacking people of another ethnic geoup
is not enough though, regardless of how vile your attacks are. It has to be the systematic destruction of their race, not intentionally attacking a large group of those you violently object to. Plenty of Palestinians may wish to carry out a genocide of the Jews but their actions at the music festival did not amount to that. Neither did Israel’s actions towards Gaza’s. People like to use ‘genocide’ because it is so awful and they reach for the worst words they can think of to describe their terrible suffering. But the meanings of these words must be kept.

People like to use ‘genocide’ because it is so awful and they reach for the worst words they can think of to describe their terrible suffering. But the meanings of these words must be kept.

I agree and it's also imperative the term is applied correctly. Sadly this paper has had little attention unsurprisingly, but it is well researched.

Hamas’ October 7th Genocide: Legal Analysis and the Weaponisation of Reverse Accusations – A Study in Modern Genocide Recognition and Denial | Israel Law Review | Cambridge Core

There seems to be a step missing in this analysis. It goes from Hamas has genocidal intent, that there has been widespread denial about how horrific Oct 7 was to calling Oct 7 genocidal would be helpful. It seems to miss out how it finds that Oct 7 was intended to destroy a substantial part of the Jewish race rather than the horrific attack on civilians designed to provoke an enemy.

The danger here is in undermining the words needed to describe actions that have the real outcome of destroying a race or ethnic group. This includes the Nazi’s genocidal actions towards the Jews in the Holocaust. If the brutal murder of a thousand civilians as a provocation becomes ‘genocide’ then what are we left with when there is a systematic attempt to wipe a race that has a hugely significant impact on the number of people left of that race and their culture threatening the survival of that race itself?

The bible isn’t history

You mean it is current?

The details of the kings, battles, movement of peoples are not made up even if you do not believe in the prophets.

I never said anything about the Bible. Check the archeological evidence.

The Balfour Declaration specifically said that existing residents should not be disadvantaged.

No, it happened when Jewish people threw people out of their homes and off their land. They’re still doing it.

What on earth does that have to do with anything!

The annihilation of the Palestinians has been planned for decades. This was in the 70s.

"At Bibi Netenyahu's dinner table in Jerusalem, I listened with crawling dismay to Bibi talking about the future of his country. 'In the next war, if we do it right, we'll have a chance to get all the arabs out,' he said. We can clear the West Bank, sort out Jerusalem.' He joked about the Golani Brigade, the Israeli infantry force in which so many men were North African or Yemenite Jews.'They're okay as long as they're led by white officers.' he grinned."

Max Hastings, interview with Netanyahu in 1977. From his book" Going to the Wars".

And before that you had Menachem Begin and his terrorist friends blowing up British soldiers.

The lack of access to services is not the fault of Muslims or immigrants. It’s the fault of government cuts.