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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to want spending cuts rather than more tax rises?

188 replies

PinkFruitbat · Today 10:07

The foundations are being laid for more tax rises in the October Budget.

https://www.ft.com/content/6d43b599-3d7c-471c-88c2-0f056475a840?syn-25a6b1a6=1

AIBU to ask for savings in spending to help balance the budget rather than more taxes.

With welfare spending at nearly £1bn each day, when is enough, enough?

OP posts:
NancyThompson · Today 13:23

WhisperingHi · Today 13:19

“NHS incompetency and bloat” - so fucking disrespectful. Do you know that the NHS management spend is proportionately lower than private sector? That services and standards can’t manage themselves? That many NHS workers are absolutely overrun with work, from helping you and your family, our community and ensuring every blood box is ticked so we don’t get sued, are compliant with law, and continue to adapt to a growing nation of unhealthy people?!

It’s so easy to point the finger, when the reality is so different. I’d recommend you increase your knowledge before making sweeping statements.

This illustrates the problem of having the NHS on a pedestal though - no, it's not "fucking disrespectful" to criticise an government entity, it needs to not be treated like the state religion.

Mirrorxxx · Today 13:23

RoseyLentil · Today 12:48

Councils could save money by cutting residual waste collections to monthly. Recycling and food waste should be mandatory with fines for putting recycling or food waste into the residual waste bin. Ideally households should be charged for the waste they dispose of instead of the flat charge via council tax.
Much higher fines for flytipping and catch more flytippers , most flytipping is black bag waste. People should be made to be responsible for the rubbish they create and if they don’t recycle they pay more.
Waste crime should be tackled aggressively (government has recently made a good start) but more needs to be done to tackle the situation that has allowed criminals to move into the enforcement vacuum left by years of conservative government under funding and weak policies.

I would also increase fines greatly for speeding, parking violations and running red lights. Install cameras and make people behave better

Coconutter24 · Today 13:23

Tel12 · Today 11:25

If we want to live in a civilised society with good schools and public services then we need to pay. Start by taxing the rich.

What do you mean by ‘start taxing the rich’?

Mirrorxxx · Today 13:23

NancyThompson · Today 13:23

This illustrates the problem of having the NHS on a pedestal though - no, it's not "fucking disrespectful" to criticise an government entity, it needs to not be treated like the state religion.

100% agree. It’s such nonsense that the nhs is some special thing. It’s really not.

TangyChina · Today 13:25

WhisperingHi · Today 13:19

“NHS incompetency and bloat” - so fucking disrespectful. Do you know that the NHS management spend is proportionately lower than private sector? That services and standards can’t manage themselves? That many NHS workers are absolutely overrun with work, from helping you and your family, our community and ensuring every blood box is ticked so we don’t get sued, are compliant with law, and continue to adapt to a growing nation of unhealthy people?!

It’s so easy to point the finger, when the reality is so different. I’d recommend you increase your knowledge before making sweeping statements.

Count yourself lucky then because the reality myself and my family have experienced within the NHS is shocking incompetency and bloat with even the very basic tenants of dignity
Patient centered care hygiene and respect are not there.

TangyChina · Today 13:27

NancyThompson · Today 13:23

This illustrates the problem of having the NHS on a pedestal though - no, it's not "fucking disrespectful" to criticise an government entity, it needs to not be treated like the state religion.

And certainly not disrespectful when the incompetancy and bloat has put loved ones lives at risk and caused longer term problems and all the rest like a lack of respect and dignity .

Goota · Today 13:30

WhisperingHi · Today 13:21

Totally agree with previous poster about increasing inheritance tax. No one is entitled to inherited wealth. They don’t “deserve” it simply for being born to parents or grandparents who have excess wealth. It’s inherently unequal and should be heavily taxed.

Want money, earn it and save it.

Inheritance tax should be 0% imo. People have every right to entrust their wealth and whatever to their descendants.

A lot of our wealth is in India and we'll be moving back soon as there's 0% IHT and we'll be able to give everything to our kids and not to the welfare state

Coconutter24 · Today 13:31

Ginmonkeyagain · Today 12:45

@EasternStandard yes, I think we have to move to a broader tax base and stop relying on taxing PAYE income so much, capital and inherotance needs to be taxed more. It is wild I recentlty got taxed 40% on a £1.5k work bonus but someone else can trouser hundreds of thousands tax free for simply being born to the right family.

I would tackle tax evasion - including for small businesses and self employed peope who are, in aggregate, some of the worst offenders.

We also need to make our peace with the fact the biggest growth in NHS spending and benefits is going to come from an aging population and focus some tax and/or savings at that cohort. .

Why should inheritance be taxed more? It’s not always about ‘being born to the right family’. Inheritance that is left is usually either property that has already been taxed or money earned and then saved which again would have already been taxed. Why should people be double taxed?

Goota · Today 13:32

The rich pay enough. Large businesses pay enough. Most of the tax gap is illegal avoidance and it's done by mostly small self employed traders and SMEs

Marellain · Today 13:32

Goota · Today 13:30

Inheritance tax should be 0% imo. People have every right to entrust their wealth and whatever to their descendants.

A lot of our wealth is in India and we'll be moving back soon as there's 0% IHT and we'll be able to give everything to our kids and not to the welfare state

I agree. It’s horrendous to work really hard for family and not be able to pass it on without a huge chunk being taken. At that point the govt seem like highway bandits.

LakieLady · Today 13:34

LlynTegid · Today 12:16

I want to see the tax burden fall more on rich companies and rich people and less tax avoidance or evasion.

There are areas of expenditure I would happily see reduced, for example a lot of the new road building.

I also think with modern communication we could have fewer MPs, fewer councillors, so that expenditure reduction includes everyone.

Moving to single-tier local government will dramatically reduce the number of councillors in shire county areas.

My county has 5 district/borough councils with 30-40 councillors each, say, 175 councillors in total, plus 50 on the county council, so approx 225 in total. The new unitary council will only have 95 councillors.

AirborneElephant · Today 13:35

Whitestarqueen · Today 12:01

Building more council housing will save millions on the housing element of UC.
DWP etc are the civil service and a large portion of the workforce are AO grade who get just above minimum wage! So they can’t have a 25% decrease in wages!
I would reinstate the child element of UC to 3 children.
Bring social care back in house for councils as if a private company can be making profit the council should be able to manage cheaper! Or at least pay the staff properly ie not make one appointment after another with no time to magic yourselves half a mile away!

Not a 25% decrease in wages, a 25% decrease in staff. The problem with 5% cuts is that departments try to just salami slice and the savings never happen. A full 25% cuts would force a proper think about which teams and people are actually necessary rather than just nice to have. There are so, so many people in the civil service doing unnecessary work. I know quite a few of them myself, lovely, intelligent, skilled, well meaning people but frankly the country could live without the jobs they are doing.

WhisperingHi · Today 13:37

TangyChina · Today 13:27

And certainly not disrespectful when the incompetancy and bloat has put loved ones lives at risk and caused longer term problems and all the rest like a lack of respect and dignity .

I don’t understand - you think treatment outcomes will improve with less staff? And less time for training and development?

Ginmonkeyagain · Today 13:42

@Coconutter24 IHT is not double taxation. The dead don't pay tax.

VAT, stamp duty now there ARE double taxation.

User134098 · Today 13:43

AirborneElephant · Today 13:35

Not a 25% decrease in wages, a 25% decrease in staff. The problem with 5% cuts is that departments try to just salami slice and the savings never happen. A full 25% cuts would force a proper think about which teams and people are actually necessary rather than just nice to have. There are so, so many people in the civil service doing unnecessary work. I know quite a few of them myself, lovely, intelligent, skilled, well meaning people but frankly the country could live without the jobs they are doing.

What do you count as unnecessary work?

Coconutter24 · Today 13:44

Ginmonkeyagain · Today 13:42

@Coconutter24 IHT is not double taxation. The dead don't pay tax.

VAT, stamp duty now there ARE double taxation.

Someone earns money, they are taxed, they save over a certain amount to pass on to their family that money is taxed again. The money has then been double taxed.
Why do you think VAT is double taxed?

strawberrybubblegum · Today 13:44

WhisperingHi · Today 13:37

I don’t understand - you think treatment outcomes will improve with less staff? And less time for training and development?

Given how much worse it is now than 10 years ago despite NHS spending increasing from £185 billion in 2015 to £345 billion now.. maybe?

And if not, then at least lower taxes would leave us some of our own money to cover the health care we're having to pay for ourselves already, since the NHS isn't working.

Ginmonkeyagain · Today 13:46

I have worked in the public sector most of my career. Never met a full time diversity officer. We have HR people who have diversity duties as part of their wider role and the Public Sector Equality Duty means a lot of us have to spend some of our time considering compliance with the EA 2010 But the idea there is millions to be made sacking "diversity officers" is frankly insane

LakieLady · Today 13:47

PinkFruitbat · Today 10:40

Complete cut to foreign aid.

25% cut to the civil service.

25% cut to all welfare.

Reinstate a child benefit cap (3 children).

Mandatory in person PiP review for all claimants.

Scrap triple lock, winter fuel allowance, free TV licence, free bus passes for the elderly.

Motability only for UK manufactured cars, basic models only.

Cut House of Lords down from 1000 to say 200.

Most PIP claimants have to renew their PIP every 3 years and also have a review during the term of the award. This includes a new assessment and pre-Covid these were always in person.

Ten-year awards are possible, but vanishingly rare: I never came across one and I worked in welfare rights long before PIP was even a thing. We could, of course, give indefinite awards to the people with conditions that will never change, like my friend's son with severe cerebral palsy, or a member of another forum I'm on whose legs will never grow back.

Reviews and renewals of those with permanent disabilities is a waste of money in itself.

LuckyHazelFox · Today 13:47

Youcancallmeirrelevant · Today 12:31

Do you actually know some of the jobs that civil servants do? They aren't politicians!

You don't say. If only they knew that and demonstrated more neutrality.

Towerinthegarden · Today 13:51

Ziggyzag · Today 12:17

HMRC probably wouldn't know how to allow you to pay more tax.

When my DH died, as instructed, I had to write to them to tell them how much income had been earned for the period after death to the date of probate being finalised. It took them 20 months to respond and let me know where to pay the tax that was due.

I'd really like to see everything simplified, at the moment there are so many different complicated rules around tax. Simplify it, make it more straightforward, fewer 'cliff edge' scenarios.

Of course you can, and you can specify whether the money you donate goes towards paying down the national debt or to general expenditure https://www.gov.uk/guidance/voluntary-payments-donations-to-government

Voluntary payments / donations to government

Find out how to make a voluntary contribution to government.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/voluntary-payments-donations-to-government

Ginmonkeyagain · Today 13:53

@Coconutter24 ok let me explain it simply. You amass assets, some of which will have been paid for out of taxed income (ie savings or paying a mortgage in a property). You die. You pay no more tax, because you are dead and dead people do not pay tax. Your estate pays the tax. We tax individuals and entities in this country not families. Although TBH most people did not "earn" their entire property value - house price inflation driven by government policy did that for them and they definitely did not pay tax on that.

With VAT you earn money, you pay tax on it, you use your post tax income to buy goods and services in which you pay VAT. Ergo double taxation.

Binnyforthewin · Today 13:57

Ginmonkeyagain · Today 13:42

@Coconutter24 IHT is not double taxation. The dead don't pay tax.

VAT, stamp duty now there ARE double taxation.

Presumably you understand that the dead used to be not dead when they made the money?

baroqueandblue · Today 13:59

summater · Today 10:32

Yes, a good start there from KB

Oh give over. The Tories fucked the country over for 15 years and you make it sound like they didn't, and wouldn't again if given the keys to the gun cabinet!

Good start from KB my arse. She'd be the utter end of Britain, given half a chance.

You might want a clinic to run some tests on your memory.

EasternStandard · Today 14:00

baroqueandblue · Today 13:59

Oh give over. The Tories fucked the country over for 15 years and you make it sound like they didn't, and wouldn't again if given the keys to the gun cabinet!

Good start from KB my arse. She'd be the utter end of Britain, given half a chance.

You might want a clinic to run some tests on your memory.

Labour are running out of road. You can’t keep hiking taxes and borrowing more.