AIBU to be so sick of tradespeople/ cleaners asking for cash in hand?

[Endlesspasswords]

So my cleaner charges £21/hour cash, but just said she wants more if I pay by bank transfer, because bank transfer means she can’t dodge declaring it. As if paying by transfer (i.e. traceably) is some kind of favour/ privilege I should pay extra for.

Same with some work I got a quote for- it’s the attitude that if I don’t want to pay in cash, I’m the one ‘hurting’ their bank balance or being awkward.

I’m freelance B2B myself. No sick pay, no employer pension contributions, no paid holiday, I know exactly what it’s like to carry your own tax and NI. But I still pay tax on every invoice, because that’s the deal.

I’m so sick with the fact that self-employed people in one sector get to treat tax as optional while others pay for their healthcare, schools etc.

and yes, I’m getting a new cleaner.

How many people got a rude awakening with the self employed grants during covid because the amount they received was linked to how much tax they paid

"The banking system" has never gone down.

Whilst I'm absolutely not condoning tradespeople who do it for cash to avoid tax, when it comes purely to VAT, I wonder if a lot of them probably mentally separate the cost out and say it's X amount for my work and then you can either pay cash and avoid your VAT or you can pay by card including your VAT; ergo it's YOU who are avoiding YOUR tax rather than them (although they are of course being complicit
in facilitating this).

Then again, all the many people routinely asking "How much off for cash" have rather lowered the ante somewhat, to a point where it's treated as the norm to help customers to avoid their tax; and maybe you feel like a fool to yourself or 'being difficult' or 'not very helpful' if you insist on charging the VAT, and say that it's the same price however you pay - especially if all of your competitors give discounts for cash. You're penalised for being honest, and some hard-of-thinking customers could even leave you negative reviews and accuse you of ripping them off on the strength of this.

After all, a lot of sizeable and perceivably reputable non-self-employed businesses geared to supplying individual consumers will give you a quote and then add VAT afterwards (not always clearly warning you of this in advance) - even when you probably expected and would have appreciated being initially given an all-inclusive cost-to-you. Obviously they aren't in a practical position to enable you to get away with not paying the VAT, even if they were willing to; but they very clearly consider the VAT YOUR issue and nothing to do with them, other than being forced by the government to 'do their dirty work for them'.

Yes. VAT is a goods and service tax which really is a tax on the customer/consumer but which is collected via the intermediary (the supplier of the goods or services).
If you’re paying a lower price to avoid VAT then you are a thieving tax-dodger. Unfortunately the system is such that afaik dodgy customers are never punished. There may be a benefit to the trader too (due to VAT thresholds, time spent on admin, child support issues etc but you’re stealing from honest taxpayers. I’m not sure why so many people don’t seem to see this… well, actually it’s pretty clear a lot just don’t care.

So you were paying less than you would have but he would be pocketing more, that is a win win. Sharing.

Ok, you’re being pedantic. A quick search confirms that: “The entire UK banking system has never completely collapsed or stopped working all at once, though individual major banks and specific payment networks have suffered severe crashes and near-collapses.” You know full well the point I’m making.

The numbers of self employed people have grown hugely. People who previously were employed and were PAYE have dropped. And it affects us all. The tax revenues are lower as a result. Which affects in turn what money there is available to spend on us.
It is not a good thing, but has become normalised. I think it does have to change.

The £15,000 Threshold Explained

• Rateable Value vs. Profit: The figure of £15,000 refers to the property’s estimated rental value (rateable value) set by the Valuation Office Agency, not the money your shop makes as profit. 1]
• 100% Relief: You pay zero business rates if your shop has a rateable value of £12,000 or less and it is the only property you occupy. 1]
• Tapered Relief: If your shop has a rateable value between £12,001 and £15,000, you get a sliding scale discount that drops gradually from 100% down to 0%. 1]
• Lower Multipliers: Properties with a rateable value under £51,000 use a smaller multiplier to calculate bills even if they do not qualify for full relief. 1]

sorry its to do with rateable value not profit, they are often small shops due to the nature of the business

in many cases there may well be much more to some particular nail bars than meets the eye - so why do people keep using them?

I found a nail bar that took card payment, or so I thought - next time I had my nails done they didn't accept card...I had to visit cash machine to pay. I haven't returned. Now I ask before hand each and every time as to not get caught out

Exactly. Put far more eloquently than I could.

seconded

Very slightly off-topic, but we now have all of the people with cake sheds who are up in arms about the 'outrage' of them having to be licensed and declare their income for tax.

It's handy to be able to claim it's just a tiny little thing that you dabble in on the side, but some who spend hours a week baking and live in areas with high footfall must be raking in quite a decent sum - and all with no business costs either. Meanwhile, the little local family-run bakery - that also has to pay for and maintain their own public premises - would be laughed at if anybody ever suggested that they shouldn't have to pay tax on their income.

Report them to HMRC then.

Yes, the irony is that the more money people have the less likely they are to pay their bills on time and without quibble.

Ask anyone providing goods and services in the wealthier parts of the UK.
This is why most companies no longer accept payment on completion of service.

With cleaners it’s usually low paid and more often women doing it in homes. They’re not really the issue with tax and society. And cash is just a small part of having something that’s a bit more theirs. I can’t begrudge it.

Yes... and with a lot of nail bars, not paying tax may only be the tip of the iceberg of what the authorities need to investigate them for.

Yep. We have one in my town exactly the same. I used it once, but won’t again on principle because I strongly suspect the place might be some sort of cover for an illegal set up. The employees all looked exhausted, had their young children with them, weren’t wearing masks when using the electric files to work on gels nor disposable gloves doing pedicures.

The whole set up had a very temporary air about it and again, because it was cash only, everyone is untraceable and presumably have no contracts, employee rights or safety protection.

Absolutely.
I have had a few largish gardening jobs done by a local company. The first two times they asked to be paid, cash, 50% halfway through and 50% on the final day. I didn’t assume VAT dodging, I hadn’t been given two quote, and I did get an invoice. The next time they did a job I was told bank transfer for payment at the end of the job please. The guy didn’t mind telling me it was because he now knew I was a good payer and wasn’t going to scam him like so many people do today. Only yesterday a builder I use often told me he’d had his first ever non payer, but it was a lot of money. Told him to consider asking for cash instalments with new clients. Not every tradesman asking for cash is a scammer, sometimes they’re trying to avoid being scammed themselves.

Our local Chinese is strictly cash only. They must make a fortune (cookie).

People think it’s the rich dodging tax, but I can tell you it’s THIS behaviour that creates the black economy. I refuse to pay cash, ever.

All these people needing to be paid in cash, why? Surely the only reason for people to be paid in cash is that they're avoiding something:

• tax
• national insurance
• being VAT registered
• paying for their children

I won't be part of it to help them dodge their responsibilities...

Not income of £90,000; turnover.

People can stand on their doorstep and make a bank transfer. I think it’s a good cover for potential abuse.

Even hairdressers are self employed these days. Years ago they never used to be.

I pay my window cleaners in cash and will continue to do so. They do a great job and can reach all the areas I can't.

That's all I want and I am not going to preach at them about the morals of it all.

Most other tradespeople doing bigger jobs want bank transfers, so that's what they get.

In the end, I just want someone able and willing to do a proper job and to me that is all that matters. I am widowed and my income is modest. If paying cash allows me a couple of hundred pounds off here and there then I'll take that provided I can be confident of the job being done to a good standard.

We Had to take a builder to court when work he carried out was defective. We would have had a hard job proving that we had paid him had we not transferred money to him. Although we gave him some in cash, we had a trail, either email or text msgs, so he couldn’t deny it.