AIBU to be so sick of tradespeople/ cleaners asking for cash in hand?

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So my cleaner charges £21/hour cash, but just said she wants more if I pay by bank transfer, because bank transfer means she can’t dodge declaring it. As if paying by transfer (i.e. traceably) is some kind of favour/ privilege I should pay extra for.

Same with some work I got a quote for- it’s the attitude that if I don’t want to pay in cash, I’m the one ‘hurting’ their bank balance or being awkward.

I’m freelance B2B myself. No sick pay, no employer pension contributions, no paid holiday, I know exactly what it’s like to carry your own tax and NI. But I still pay tax on every invoice, because that’s the deal.

I’m so sick with the fact that self-employed people in one sector get to treat tax as optional while others pay for their healthcare, schools etc.

and yes, I’m getting a new cleaner.

I had a builder client he was paying me for my service and wanted to pay cash in hand to avoid VAT. Err no. He had several adult kids all on benefits. No wonder the economy is stuffed.

Chinese takeaways near me do not take card payments so I avoid those as well. It's so obviously a tax dodge.

Many people have a side hustle and see their taxes being wasted on perks for corrupt MPs, vanity projects, overseas aid and asylum seekers. It salves their conscience to withhold part of their income from sucking off the tax man. The days of a welfare state funded by taxing labour are numbered anyway, although I doubt I will see the end in my lifetime. We have an ageing population (who have more than paid their share) a falling birth rate, and a generation of young people who cannot find work (thanks Rachel from Accounts) Therefore an ever diminishing tax base. The system cannot be fixed with the tools we currently have at hand.

The older people I know take a very positive view of using cash.

Why?

Years ago I had a builder suggest I pay £25k in cash for a loft conversion, I can’t remember what discount he was suggesting. I said yes because I was a bit bewildered and naive. Later thankfully said no as realised he was a lunatic and his business website was using photographs from other companies. I’ll give cash if requested for smaller jobs, it’s up to them to sort out their morals around tax.

Can the (currently) 20% explain why it’s okay to dodge paying tax and NI?

Exactly. It's not just tax avoidance and child maintenance avoidance but also by keeping their claimed income as artificially low, a lot of people can claim benefits they otherwise wouldn't be entitled to.

A lot of people here are also deliberately conflating your local lovely fish n' chips shop preferring cash over card to avoid the card transaction fee on each order for a card payment (happy to give cash over in this situation if I have it) with seasoned tradesmen asking for cash for very large amounts. Above all else, paying by card or bank transfer gives you paper trails, rights to raise disputes or claim back costs for undelivered goods or services.

This, I am a sole trader and never had business account. I don't even think you need a separate personal account if you keep all the records you need.

For me it depends- £20 in cash to the window cleaner is very different to £200 or even £2000 in cash to a tradesman.

I have sympathy for tradespeople though , and people should remember that the majority of tax not being paid is by huge multi billion revenue companies, not your local plasterer / cleaner. What really annoys me is this state sanctioned tax evasion.

I’m in the South East and we pay £20. It’s fairly standard I believe.

In what way? Cash is legal tender. As long as there is a record of it (invoice) how would it affect your insurance?

Can you justify why you automatically assume cash payment is a tax dodge? Lots of people seem to think this even when the price is the same! How or when did using cash become such a dirty thing? It’s bonkers.

Yes, this. While OPs cleaner does sound like a benefit fraud/tax avoidance, there are reasons other than tax avoidance why a sole trader/small business might prefer cash. Card transactions cost a small business 2% upwards per transaction and thats alot to loose. I am a sole trader and I don't have a card machine so its either bank transfer, paypal at over 2%, or cash. I don't like my customers being all "nudge nudge, wink wink" with me because they are giving me cash, and I declare it all. The price remains the same too!

I pay mine by bank transfer. She charges £15/hour regardless of route of payment. It is up to her to manage her tax liabilities, not me.

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To the broader question.

I pay cash if people ask for cash, it is up to them how they manage their taxes. Not me to be their moral arbiter.

I keep my income below the £100k cliff edge by paying more into my pension. It is the same principle of keeping more for myself. Every time someone posts about losing their tax free childcare, they get advised to do this. What is so morally different about that?

Quite. It’s not Michelle doing your nails, or Dave helping you move a sofa, who are the problem. But let’s focus on them, instead of companies like Amazon channeling billions of UK revenue through Luxembourg.

Fully agree.

Some years back, my then-hairdresser tutted and sighed really loudly when I dared to pay by card. I had cash but he'd added a service while I was there, which then left me short.

Last year the lady I (used to) get facial treatments from started asking for cash only, and given how much her treatments/botox costs, this was incredibly impractical. I stopped going.

Guy next door is a tradesman (boilers, etc) and told my partner that he fiddles his tax, yet he has 3 kids who all go to school, and do they not use the roads, public services, and infrastructure?

The only ones I indulge in this are the local Chinese where it's 30% cheaper to order directly (not just eat) and pay cash. And my orders are like £100 quid normally so a nice discount

Yes I’m not sure cleaners are living it up on a tax free lifestyle.

What bank charges?

Genuine question: do all self employed people have a separate business account?

Well exactly - he is making customers pay his tax bill! Cheeky get

Well you’re technically paying the tax in that situation. You chose.

Do you really want to live in a society without cash? What becomes of the millions of people who do not have (and cannot open) bank accounts? Or those who do, but are debanked (not as rare as you’d think). How would the homeless manage? Do you want a society where you are forced to entrust all of your money to third parties (are banks always safe? - imagine not having a bit of cash for emergencies). What if you were in a financially controlling relationship and cash was the only way to protect your money? What happens when the banking system goes down - it happens and people don’t fully realise how vulnerable that system is. This is before we even get on to the question of freedoms and the state’s right to track absolutely everything you do. Honestly, there are so many reasons that cash is important and it’s crazy that some people would so willingly give it up.

I’m in two minds on this one. I wouldn’t pay a cleaner £21 an hour for a start! I also wouldn’t pay someone over the odds habitually (weekly) and then enable them to dodge tax!

Where I do see this more favourably is where it’s more of a one off job and there’s a mutual benefit… so a decorator quotes £1k plus VAT to do some work and I say “how about £850 cash?”. Then there’s a benefit for both of us!