AIBU to be so sick of tradespeople/ cleaners asking for cash in hand?

[Endlesspasswords]

So my cleaner charges £21/hour cash, but just said she wants more if I pay by bank transfer, because bank transfer means she can’t dodge declaring it. As if paying by transfer (i.e. traceably) is some kind of favour/ privilege I should pay extra for.

Same with some work I got a quote for- it’s the attitude that if I don’t want to pay in cash, I’m the one ‘hurting’ their bank balance or being awkward.

I’m freelance B2B myself. No sick pay, no employer pension contributions, no paid holiday, I know exactly what it’s like to carry your own tax and NI. But I still pay tax on every invoice, because that’s the deal.

I’m so sick with the fact that self-employed people in one sector get to treat tax as optional while others pay for their healthcare, schools etc.

and yes, I’m getting a new cleaner.

Even if they’re left with £45k after the expenses you mentioned (although I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a lot more), that’s a good amount and no reason not to pay tax. You do realise that people employed on £45k still have to pay for a car to get to work, maybe suitable clothes, sometimes even equipment or professional fees. And that’s after they’ve already paid tax and NI, not before.

But if we get rid of cash for adults - on the suggestion that nobody over 18 ever uses it honestly or legitimately - do you really think the cash system will be kept in place purely for children's spending money? And where would the children even spend it, if they can't give it to adults in exchange for things in shops?

Yes, cash can be abused by people to avoid/evade taxes; but that's the fault of the people doing that and not of the cash itself. Amazon manages to (technically legally, I'm sure) avoid millions, if not billions, of dollars of taxes that many people believe they morally should be paying - yet Amazon doesn't conduct a single one of its transactions in cash.

No it doesn’t. It’s done on turnover and paint is very expensive. He doesn’t want to register as he probably won’t then get any work as his charges will immediately go up by 20%.

cash in hand is often not about tax by the way - it’s often to protect benefits.

I had some friends that paid £15k in cash to a roofer in order to get a hefty discount.

The hoops they had to jump through to withdraw that money as there is NO non dodgy reason to withdraw that amount of cash.

They whinged about their rights and ' their money' ...but couldn't think of one legitimate reason why they would need £15k in cash.

Banks KNOW that money is being used for barely legal purposes.

Interestingly they got burgled not long after the work was finished, and I couldn't help but wonder about the unscrupulous traders they used.

I think you misunderstand me. I’m not saying that they should be avoiding VAT, I’m just setting out one of the (many) reasons why it happens, and the key difference between turnover (which is the trigger for VAT) and income, which is what’s taxed. These business are of course still paying, or are required to pay, tax even if they’re not VAT registered, either as a limited company and via payroll/dividend tax, or as a self employed sole trader. Your employer is perfectly at liberty to pay for your professional fees, training and equipment. If they don’t then I don’t see why it should be a race to the bottom by not letting anyone deduct perfectly reasonable expenses from their taxable income. If you need a vehicle for your job they can also provide that. And of course you, as the tradesman is required to do, will pay tax on the benefit in kind :)

The simple fact is that the UK tax system, which is one of the longest and most complex in the world, actively discourages business, especially small business and especially growth. It creates disincentives for the employed to not earn between £100k and £150kish, for a small business to grow beyond the VAT threshold, for anyone to hire employees, for anyone to invest because of constantly changing rules. And then complains there’s no growth in the economy and the consequent doom spiral of stagnant wages, rising taxes and increased borrowing, leaving ever worsening public public services and a dissatisfied electorate :)

I think that’s shows a complete lack of understanding what life is like for some people. Before I moved from the UK I did a chunk of volunteering for an organisation that provided support to some of the poorest in society who’d got into the most terrible financial messes, in many cases as a result a combination of circumstances behind their control. These were people who ended up owing credit companies, utility companies, banks what would be seen as small amounts of money to many of us, but insurmountably large when your current account is almost always in an unauthorised overdraft, who have debt collectors knocking at the door, attachment of earnings or benefits orders and so on. Any money sent to their bank account gets swallowed by the usurious bank charges that rack up when you’re almost always in an unauthorised overdraft. For them, being paid in cash is what let them buy food for their children, put some credit on their prepaid electricity meter, buy a bus ticket. They are people who can’t just tap and pay, because their card won’t be authorised. And there are a y many of them on the fringes of society. It’s easy to take for granted that a quick trip to M&S and a quick tap of your phone will result in some food. Not so easy when your races are frozen/maxed out. So I don’t judge those cleaners, odd job people or whatever who prefer cash because life is tough at the bottom. Of course, paying for a new roof in cash is at the other end of the spectrum, and is clearly the black economy.

Having said that, I don’t think HMRC are overly bothered about small fry like that, even the roofers. When I called my bank to get £5k in cash as a slush fund in case I had problems opening an account overseas, Barclays just told me to go the ATM inside the bank, where I could take out £2k at a time without bothering them!

I’m very sorry to hear that. Lawyering at HMRC is the absolute arse end of even the in-house spectrum. Just desperate.

I think most of the people on this thread are commenting from a place of privilege where they just have absolutely zero understanding of the situation faced by people in poverty.

On the contrary, I come from a position of having been a struggling single mum who often skipped meals and had holes in her shoes (I worked full time with a disability but had mortgage and nursery fees to pay). Meanwhile my ex was being paid cash in hand by various "upstanding members of the community" and living a life of endless holidays and nice cars because CMS were convinced he barely made any money

It's their money. Why should anyone have to ask to withdraw their own money?

Pretty basic rules to try and limit money laundering obviously

If someone wants 15k of their own money it's theirs

the first £1000 per annum doesn't need to be declared, then if the person isn't working else where they get £12,500 PA

I'm not so sure that baking cakes, packaging for the cakes, sticky label with ingredients lists for each cake, the time spent, the oven electric or gas, the ingredients purchased, the water bill - is making a great deal of profit

🍰 Retail Price: £3.50
🥚 Ingredients (approx. 25%): -£1.00 (Flour, sugar, eggs, butter, and expensive additions like chocolate or Biscoff)
📦 Packaging & Labeling: -£0.25 (Cellophane, boxes, allergen stickers, and free takeaway bags)
💳 Card Reader & Transaction Fees: -£0.10 (SumUp or Zettle cut per tap)
🏠 Overheads & Utilities: -£0.75 (Kitchen gas, electricity, water, business insurance, CCTV subscriptions, and website fees)
🏃‍♂️ Labor (The Hidden Cost): Stocking a shed requires 2 to 3 days of heavy baking, washing up, and labeling. When bakers deduct a fair hourly wage for their time, the "pure profit" drops significantly.

Totally agree. There are a fuck ton of self-employed people out there paying next to no taxes while the rest of us on PAYE have no choice. I’m getting sick of being in an ever-decreasing group of people who the tax burden seems to be falling on.

I'd avoid tax if I could

You guys don’t want to live in Spain then!!!
The government can help itself out of your bank account … so gardeners/tradies- all want cash.

What was described wasnt people in poverty... It was people in debt.

It was describing people wanting cash as a means of avoiding payments being taken towards their various debts.

There are lots of people living in poverty and on tight budgets still perfectly able to use their bank card when they have just been paid into their account, not everyone has debts they are trying to avoid paying.

Nail on the head. I’ve loads of clients working fewer hours or opening fewer days to avoid breaching the £90k threshold. It’s definitely holding back small business growth and employment.

Money laundering.

Oh sooo funny. Cash only I assume.

So how did you pay them

It's MN and the over privileged. It's fairly common here to see people putting money into pensions to avoid penalties when their salaries top £100k and other dodges, it's good financial planning apparently. But they are so keen to stiff the people who are cleaning their toilets. It disgusts me.
We need cash for many reasons. Banks already have too much control, they've withdrawn services from so many towns across the country. My elderly parents struggle badly with this and now use cash as much as possible. My sister's small business was crippled when her bank froze her account, she had done nothing wrong, she takes as much cash as possible now and yes, she pays her taxes.

Bank transfer in instalments as the work was completed

Dodges? Perfectly legitimate financial planning. Bloody hell I’ve read it all now.

The government have advised us to stock up on water, tinned food, torches, candles, CASH etc because of whatever they're anticipating this winter. Cash maybe very useful in the near future.