To wonder why parents don’t take responsibility for their children’s behaviour?

[PPAPPINE]

I have noticed that particularly with older children/ teens with behavioural issues, parents and adults in general seem to think the child is solely to blame and take very little responsibility of their own.
I don’t believe children become violent, aggressive or incredibly reckless for no reason. I believe it is usually due to trauma or neglect/ lack of positive attention even (or especially) in ND children.
It seems like most people genuinely believe that a child or young adult with behavioural issues like aggression/ defiance/ criminal or reckless behaviour has just become that way either of their own accord or due to outside influences or neurodiversity. When it’s often down to neglect and lack of support and love at home.

Arguably, lack of education around attachment and parenting is not always the fault of parents and I’m not sure why it’s not encouraged.
Of Course there are exceptions and other factors that play a part but it’s hard not to notice that it’s often the children who have unstable home lives, multiple younger siblings and no boundaries or routine.
This all seems so obvious to me. AIBU?

Not everything can be easily and neatly explained by parenting styles. It's what parenting books have us believe, and what people like you, OP, seem to believe as well. Perfect parents don't necessarily have lovely, well-adjusted children, because children are influenced by many, many more factors than just their parents. And inadequate parents don't always have difficult children.
Sorry to upset your simplistic worldview!

I think that as with many things that's an over simplification.
Absolutely there are parents who are disinterested and don't discipline but there are also many parents doing their best with no support who from the outside still have badly behaved children.
The problem is they are all too often lumped in with the others and then are offered no help because "they are the problem" or the help is unsuitable because if it's trauma/ neuro diversity then standard methods don't always work and can make problems worse.

However neuro diversity can't be a blanket get out of jail free card. It does mean a child might need different consequences than viewed as normal/ acceptable by others.
It might mean a child needs a different environment so their nervous systems are not triggered to the point of dysregulation
and so the list goes on.

It might mean parents need access to specialists so they can learn a different way to parent. Or how to adjust their house hold.
It might mean school settings need to adapt their system to meet a child's needs or more honestly that the government needs to accept a one style fits all style of education doesn't work and put time and effort into developing different types of schools to meet different need, ensuring that schools have access to the right professionals to assess needs sooner so children don't become broken by the system.

It hurts parents like me when we are lumped in with parents just aren't bothered because of they would their child would do x,y,z.
My child's behaviour looked awful for a while at school drop offs because they reached breaking point and would melt down trying to go in. We were judged and their was no help (there is still minimal help).
But if needed there were consequences after but also lots of time and effort on discussing how we could work together to not get to that point or alternative actions to help with the feelings eg) no you can't hit me/ your brother but yes you can go and smash the pillow on your room as hard as you want.
I absolutely know there are parents who don't put the effort in for what ever reason. But for everyone one of them there is another parent judge to be the same who is doing everything they can but still being judged.

Absolutely. I seen their child swearing at their mum in public. Quite embarrassing really for the mum. She swore back and it was back and forth like a show😅 just comes to show what the parent has influenced on their children.

TBH they don't really have to.

Some parents have no shame and there's always someone out there that'll give off "it's not the kids fault the parents are useless" shite, yet those parents won't see it as criticism against them they'll see it as defending their kids behaviour.

I mean there definitely is evidence to support what I’m suggesting but I definitely understand that there are often other factors at play.
I actually do have experience with my own children, not so much as teens. I have always felt responsible. But am very open to being proved wrong.
I was also a “bad” teenager.
I do think that there is more that we could do as a society to educate parents and not write children off/ label them as bad.

I live in a very deprived area and have witnessed some diabolical parenting, swearing at kids and never knowing where they are and the consequences of that. But I have also seen children crying out for help and attention because their parents met new partners and had more children and are now unable to give them the attention they need. The parents response seems to be to label them as “naughty” or mentally unwell, shout at them, ignore them and continue to be slack with boundaries.

I'm someone who believes strongly in parental influence on their children but I still think this is a bit simplistic.

Yes, ND children often get parented in a way that is less effective. Because the parents don't know any better, are overwhelmed as often as becuse they think children should just behave differently. Ditto, good kids can go bad with poor parental decisions which may be made for any number of reasons. But at the same time, there are other factors - outside influence, natural personality of the child, school, friends, abuse etc.

we have a chld in our broader family. There is no question that he is very difficutl to parent. It's also an unfortunate truth that his parents are both fairly ineffective and both are constantly bemused by the fact that he doesn't behave the way they think he should. He's ND but it has taken until he's almost a teen for that to be confirmed because his parents were first in denial and then when they decided they did need support, they're overwhelmed and stressed and it took them 4 years to get any sort of diagnosis. The relationship between his parents is also poor and his father in particular has a lot of issues which have impacted him including regularly disappearing for months at a time. Plus Covid was bad for veryone, but I suspect his experience was worse. His parents weren't great about getting him out and about pre-Covid, needless to say, during Covid he was just at home, all day, every day.

His mum wants the best for him and is doing her best, but she doesn't have the support of a decent partner and her own issues mean she hasnt listened to school or other professionals. Any feedback given to or about him she pushes back on aggressively, I suspect becaus she felt as a child that her parents NEVER supported he (from what I can tell, that's not untrue).

It's not as simple as, "parents don't care or put the effort in". Even when parents are makign the mistakes, it's not a simple, "they're not trying hard enough".

and yet when they come to Juvenile Court they use the broken home/abusive upbringing/ mental health issues on why they committed the crime, the worse the better

@RampantIvywe must live in the same town. The problem for me is the lack of consequences. We’ve not only had a recent incident in the bus station where a guard was beaten and filmed, but we’ve had a massive increase in the number of girls who assault other girls and then also film it for the benefit of social media. Sadly, my daughter was one of these girls and they actually almost killed her. She’s never been the same, and the stigma of being a girl who was “jumped” on social media still follows her 3 years later. Luckily for us, the two girls responsible were prosecuted and the judge ordered it be kept on their record for life. BUT, we were a rare occurrence. I see these fights and incidents all the time on social media and nothing seems to be done about it. That’s the problem we’re facing.

From my small amount of experience, this is very much not the case in all families. To take one example, I have a good friend whose teen is causing so much trouble and it’s not for lack of parenting.

It opened my eyes to the little support out there. My friend is resorting to paying for support / therapy but CAHMS just wants to get the teen off their caseload. It really shocking. The other child in the family does not present with the same issues. School help but they can only do so much.

I’m not surprised that many teens whose parents can’t or won’t advocate for them go completely off the rails.

I agree but isn’t it your job as a parent to know about your child’s friends and know where they are at all times and if you suspect anything you take action?

I don't need to be told that CSA leads to risk taking behaviour.
I took exception to your hypothesising about CSA as being the cause of risk taking behaviour in a child who is not part of your family or professional circle

What action should I have taken when my 16 year old son started to behave inappropriately and I suspected that he was in with the wrong crowd? Or indeed that he was the wrong crowd.

Specific examples, please

To save time, here are the usual suggestions:

"Remove phone = I have no means of getting in touch with him
And, if he was dealing, his supplier could easily get him a burner.

"Turn off wifi" = There is no shortage if WiFi out in the rest of the world.

"Ground him" = He ignored all our rules

"Throw him out" = So that he can disappear forever. He was 16.

I doubt this will be popular but I think parenting boys in particular, without a good male role model is very difficult. My son learned to be a good man because of his father, there were no lessons, he just saw how his father behaved and his attitude to me.Boys used to work alongside older men and would be called to heel sharply if they stepped out of line; I suspect many employers would be wary of this now. It’s also a bit of luck, if their friends are decent they’ll probably turn out okay. Wrong crowd? Very hard to overturn.

My 3 sons all had a good role model in their father. Two of them followed it.

This is ridiculously naive and clearly coming from someone who hadn't yet got teens. Its absolutely right that at 15+ they should be out with friends, not late, not completely without some idea of what they're doing but ultimately they need some autonomy. Its much much harder to know their friends when you stop doing a school run or having playdates. Unless you have the space and budget to become the hangout home, you may well not meet them.

Yeah I think most researchers agree it is nature AND nurture.

As the parent of a young biter (and kicker, hitter, it goes on…, I’m genuinely curious as to how you expect parents to react or behave (at the door or in meetings)?

Yes, there are parents who clearly DGAF and will blame or laugh it off. But I think fot most parents it’s mortifying, embarrassing and stressful. I cried once at pick up because I was so fed up and felt helpless - at the end of the day, the parent isn’t around during the day to intervene.

Asking what the triggers are seems fair enough. It’s also possible parents know how to manage it, so open communication is best.

If the child’s awful at nursery or school, it’s no easier for the parents most of the time.

It’s a mix of nature and nurture, but sometimes nature or life (trauma for example) throws a spanner in the works that no amount of nurture can fix. Just like some kids become decent adults despite awful upbringings.

If teenage onset then I wouldn’t necessarily blame the parents. More likely peer group or cultural influences or a trauma like an assault or bullying going on outside the home

I have a 19 year old. I’m not suggesting they have no freedom. Just that you as a parent would have an idea about the sort of people they’re friends with and what they’re doing leading up to the age where they’re able to go out on their own. Of course they’re going to experiment and they will get into trouble at times and do silly things.

For one, an apology, then backing up consequences at home. Setting boundaries. I have made it VERY clear that it isn’t all parents. I’ve also made it very clear that any personal cases here may not fall into this pattern, and you may be mortified, apologetic, you may ask about triggers because you genuinely want to understand BUT you’d be crazy if you thought that this is the response we get from all parents because it is not.

Many parents do laugh it off, many parents do say nothing, many parents do try to find a ‘trigger’ to use as an excuse. I’ve witnessed staff visibly shaking after being bitten and hit. I’ve seen staff leave because of daily physical assaults from children. I’ve seen staff on medications. This isn’t hyperbole this is the truth. You’ll know how big even some young children are and how much of a punch they can throw.

OP has asked about responsibility, I do think we as parents should take responsibility, regardless of the reasons behind behaviour (and they are complex, of course they are) and work with schools, professionals and the local authority to support. But sad to say many do not.

@Factcheckingwhilstbored i think @Rasperry s child is very young, nursery age.

I remember asking advice on my one year old biter on here and got some good advice but also some absolutely mad advice about marching in and insisting my barely verbal child apologised to the child he’d bitten (whose identity I didn’t even know!)

I know with my DS, I absolutely take responsibility and as @Rasperry says am mortified and embarrassed … but unfortunately consequences and clear boundaries don’t seem to be making very much difference. That is not to say I think all is doomed but I am already very aware how easily he could go completely off the rails.

@newseries I realise it was young children and I may come across as harsh but the problem with this thread is that people with children who are playing up, will feel it is personally bashing them and their parenting. I may be wrong but I don’t believe that is what the OP was meaning. It is about the sheer percentage who take zero responsibility not about parents who are trying their absolute best in difficult circumstances. It’s clear that you and @Rasperry are taking responsibility.

I hear your frustration, I am not exempt from the child with behavioural issues, I have one of my own. And it is exhausting. But I take responsibility for it. I work with the school, I don’t blame their neuro diversity, I try to work with the brain they have and seek solutions. I don’t always get it right but I listen to teachers, believe them and act accordingly.

It’s hard if you don’t work with children/teens yourself but there are many many out there who don’t have parents who take responsibility. And they are the ones I am referring to. And they come from ALL walks of life.

As an aside on this thread I can’t see any examples of parents who didn’t take responsibility and try their best in difficult circumstances. You’re all clearly wonderful mums and I know how bloody hard it is!

Things like "class leaving passes" are only required because it's one size fits all in education, teachers not being allowed to use professional judgement, good kids who want to learn being made anxious and constantly on edge by draconian, sledgehammer to crack a nut rules.

i was a hard teenager, a mixture of childhood SA and then got in with the wrong croad. I never ever felt ‘normal’ or like I fitted in and the bad croad made me feel l belonged. Fast forward a few years and I now live in a very affluent area, on paper excellent parents with strong boundaries and good jobs. But the reality is in this modern world that with both parents out of the house working they don’t know what the teens are up to.

There is 0 support for a child with behavioural issues, CAHMS have a several year wait list. What do you expect parents to do in the meantime? Nothing is ever black and white and blaming the parents whilst also not offering any solution or answers help.