School children should receive free bus travel before pensioners?

[Itchthescratch]

My child is starting a school where it will cost around £2k for bus travel. This school is local and one of the closest schools to us. The other schools close to us are much worse in terms of opportunities and academic outcomes. I can afford the bus fare easily but I worry that some poorer families will really struggle to send their children to the higher achieving school because of the cost.

I understand that there isn't an endless pot of money but surely it would make sense to give school children free travel ahead of other groups like pensioners? School children are statistically much more likely to suffer from poverty (child poverty is almost double pensioner poverty)and it seems crazy that we aren't supporting social mobility whilst we let all pensioners travel for free on buses.

Those pensioners paid the transport for their own children to get to school.

We are paying more than enough as a state towards children now as it is. The state picking up the tab for longer journey times chosen by parents is not a good use of money. Schools are crumbling and can barely afford glue sticks. Extra money should go towards schools nearer to where a child lives. We need shorter school run and oaps using cars less and the current system benefits that.

You choose to have children. You don’t choose to get old.

If we are paying 'more than enough' towards children then why are schools 'crumbling' and why can they barely afford glue sticks? Choose a narrative and stick to it.

Do you think all old people should be put on their nearest care home irrespective of need or preference? Is it just children, and specifically poor children, that you think should be at the complete mercy of the state allocating them a single school because it happens to be the closest?

Children don't choose to be born and they don't choose the circumstance they are born into. They are the direct beneficiaries of all of this, not the parents. The education the children receive will ultimately benefit the child and the rest of society far more than it benefits their parents.

Someone somewhere along the line 'chose' to have the people that are pensioners now. Why don't we ever hold this against adults, only children? Most pensioners have had the opportunity to improve their financial position during their working lives. Children haven't. Ultimately a lot of this boils down to choices too and ones made by pensioners when they were younger but I imagine you won't want to hear about that.

Getting the children from poorer families to the better school is only the starting point. These schools offer more opportunities, trips, music lessons etc that cost money who pays or subsidies them. They would be more stringent on uniform, such as insisting school shoes are worn, not trainers. Lots of the poorer families would struggle with this. Would you have the poorer children miss out on these opportunities or should the school pay? For struggling families the bus fare is only the tip of the iceberg berg. I definitely agree every child deserves a good education, but thinking paying for school travel would achieve this is too simplistic.

How do you know? Your contributions on this thread as always are wild.

Many on this thread have commented that their school transport used to be funded by the state. Bus fares outside of the cap are now far more expensive in real terms than they used to be when my parents were young in the 1970s. My grandparents paid the equivalent of 50p in today's money for my mum to get the bus to school. My mum paid 50p (around £1 in today's money) for my bus fare. The same journey now without a cap would be £3.

There are funds available for poorer children to access many of the things you list. Good schools ironically often don't have more stringent rules on uniform than weaker schools in my experience. The amount of inadequate schools hung up on uniform rules is astonishing.

It isn’t a single school. It’s schools within a radius.

We are investing massively in children as it is. If we want to spend more on schools themselves that should be the priority not on increasing traffic on the roads for those that want schools outside of the 3 mile radius, 2 miles for PP. Any spare cash( which doesn’t exist) should be spent on the 10% of schools that aren’t good or outstanding.

OAAps need and should be encouraged to use bus passes. Means testing bus passes for children or OAPs costs way too much to implement.

😱

All benefits - every single one of them including state pension, winter fuel payment, free bus pass etc etc should be means tested.

What I find most depressing is that in many other European countries children cycle to school and it’s safe and healthy to do so. Whereas here the demands are always US style - buses/feed them carbs for breakfast etc. massive car culture via tax incentives and salary sacrifice. We should all be walking more and driving less and all local schools and hospitals should be of a certain standard.
As it’s far healthier. And cycle and safe walking routes to schools should be there too.

It costs way too much.

Shortest, safest walking route.

Should we tell old people that they can choose care homes within a 3 mile radius?

Children would use existing bus routes. No new buses would be on the road.

Not all OAPs need free bus passes. None of the OAPs I know need them. They either drive/walk places or can pay their own bus fares if they need to use the bus. My parents would be utterly outraged that you are depicting them and people of their generation in this way. They were working a few years ago and aren't destitute, incapable people that you are desperate to portray.

Child Benefit should be based on household income not individual. Anybody on £80k household shouldn’t be getting it.

Exactly!

Safe walking and cycling routes don't exist yet for lots of kids though. Many areas have 'dodgy' parts that lots of adults would avoid when it's dark or quiet. Cycle lanes are often few and far between.

There is also the opportunity cost of walking to school when you could be doing other extra curricular activities that are equally good for you. My son plays football for example at 5pm. He isn't at secondary school yet but he would really struggle to walk 3 miles from school and then get himself ready and to football on time. It would also really restrict how much time he had available to do homework etc as well.

Lots of adults that exercise regularly don't choose to walk miles to work everyday. It's estimated only 1% if adults do this. It's impractical for many and that's ok. It doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything else to stay fit and healthy. It's crazy to place this expectation on kids.

The state pension should be means tested.

We can all play this game.

I’m a London pensioner - and I’ve used my bus pass once in 3 years, so I’m not draining the nation of much for my travel. I don’t drive - I use cabs. 👍

Your child is your responsibility.

The same is true with pensioners. Around 4 million adult children provide care and support to their aging parents. The state simply couldn't cope financially or practically if this wasn't the case.

And about 8/9 million grandparents provide free childcare for their grandchildren .... Just imagine if that support was withdrawn 😯

OAPs people pay for their care homes as any equity or savings are removed to pay for them. My parents would be outraged at parents being offered the choice of schools in a radius and being offered free transport but still expecting free transport outside of that very reasonable radius turned down by choice.

Average pension income is low and bus passes are very much needed.

You would need extra buses if suddenly all children could easily go to any old school and expect free transport . OAPs having bus passes removed would revert back to more car use.

You seem to think there is a bottomless pit of money. To access these funds you need to fit a certain criteria, normally parents claiming some form of benefit. What about the working poor, earn to much to claim but still struggling, again bus fares will only be the tip of the ice berg. Also good schools are strict on uniform, it is one of the reasons they are good schools. It sets a standard of what is acceptable, it shows rules are important and must be adhered to. That’s why poorer schools get so hung up on uniform rules, it’s the start of improving standards.
You prioritise your child’s education, rightly so, many many parents don’t, what about these children, don’t they deserve a good education, Free school travel will not solve parental involvement.

Many OAPs aren't paying anything towards their care. Why should they get a choice? Why not put them in a home within a 3 mile radius?

You are just repeating the same points even though statistics prove that pensioners as a group aren't poor. Children could use existing bus routes and lots of posters on this thread insist only poor pensioners use their bus pass anyway. If this is the case and the pensioners are genuinely that poor then they couldn't afford to run a car anyway. You can't have it all ways.