AIBU to want to leave our unlicensed rental before tensions worsen?

[Tiredboymum22]

Our family have been renting for seven years and we haven’t had much luck. We lived somewhere for just under 4 years before our landlord decided to sell the property. We moved somewhere else before being given notice after 6 months. I really wanted to try for a council house and move into temporary accommodation but DH refused as we had a newborn baby so we borrowed money off my mum for a bond and moved into a tiny cottage type house that was out the way for me as I don’t have a car. I was miserable there as the living room wasn’t big enough to swing a cat and it was difficult living there as a family of four.

A family member asked us if we wanted to live in her partner’s house that was in town, closer to the school, and much more spacious. We moved in about 2 years ago and have been paying below market price in rent. He’s been very good with repairs, etc., and left us furniture and everything in good working order. We were under the impression it was a long term let as he wanted to keep this house for his daughter. Anyway, he gave us notice this summer as his relationship broke down unexpectedly and he has nowhere to stay with his kids. We were going to apply for social housing and he was willing to help us before he found out he’d get in a lot of trouble for renting to us unlicensed. Since then he’s had trouble getting landlord insurance and there’s no way for him to register now without getting in a lot of trouble.

I’ve told DH that we should try and leave. The alternative is that we stay for as long as possible and the house either gets repossessed or he pays a hefty fine and can evict us properly. I know that legally he doesn’t have a leg to stand on but I feel like the decent thing to do is to try find somewhere as the latter could take years and cause tension within the family.

The boys’ bedroom is still painted pink and has his daughter’s bed in it. The boys want a bunk bed and a more boyish room but I don’t want to dismantle her bed and paint the room knowing he’s trying to move back. DH doesn’t care and says he has no empathy for him as essentially he committed tax fraud.

I just want to be done with the whole situation but I can’t move somewhere private with DH who just won’t compromise.

AIBU or is DH being unreasonable?

In reply to some of the questions… where I live you have to register your property with rent smart wales. It’s illegal not to do so. Then you need to do a landlord course to get insurance. Not doing this can result in a 30k fine and it is considered fraud by HMRC. I’ve only found all this out recently. I don’t know why he didn’t do it, I guess he was banking on his relationship with my family member working out. If he’d have done it properly we’d have probably not been able to afford this place but again I didn’t know all this at the time.

DH thinks it’s his own fault and we shouldn’t have to rent somewhere less smart because he failed to do his due diligence. Legally we could claim our rent back but I wouldn’t do that.

yes there was a tenancy agreement and bond. He didn’t put the bond in a landlord deposit scheme but he offered the money back anyway so I’m not concerned about that as I have proof we paid it.

personally I think the issue is with his mortgage agreement too as I know his mortgage is low (hence why our rent is so low too)

He did you a huge favour, please dont punish him

Sorry for second post but essentially he wants his house back. Yes he should have registered and followed the rules but he could maybe claim that you’re squatters / trespassers (appreciate that’s far fetched)..
He's also in breach of his mortgage conditions as he likely doesn’t have a buy to let mortgage.
He has a lot to loose - again yes not your problem but he’s doing it for his children? I hope your husband can compromise and take your deposit and leave.

So he rented the place to you cheap, but could’ve charged you market rate and paid the tax with the additional money.

You’ve got poor credit and your DH has an IVA, but suddenly he’s Mr Moral about the tax!

You’re a nightmare tenant, this guy was a fool to get involved and be kind to you!

Honestly, he’s taken all the risk and your DH is a total
user and hope he comes unstuck!

I know nothing about renting in Wales but a system that doesn’t even give the opportunity for a landlord to say that he realise he has gone wrong, and that he must face penalties, etc, but doesn’t allow him to put things right for the future seems draconian.
Is that the case, or is he not trying to put things right due to possible fines?
All the while this goes on the landlord is getting in worse financial trouble, especially if there is the chance that he has to repay rent. He needs to take whatever action he can to bring the situation to an end. That may be letting the mortgage company repossess if things get that bad.
It doesn’t sound like anyone is going to come out of this situation as a winner.
I know your relative has done wrong, but I couldn’t live with your DH after his comment. I don’t support tax evasion either but someone treating a person, who has tried to help him, so badly is not in a position to take the moral high ground.

He was a fool, should’ve charged them proper market rent and just used the extra to pay the tax.

Funny that now the DH is Mr Moral about the tax, but I bet he knew all along and it was fine because he was benefitting! User!

Your dh is a nasty piece of work. It sounds like your landlord was giving you below market rent as a family favour, he didn’t understand all the regulations as this is his first rental and he’s young but he kept the place in good nick etc.
what else does your dh want exactly? Hope nobody ever does him a favour again in his life. Horrid man

How well do you know him Op? I’d suspect one way people he knows will tell him to sort this is to come round with his mates/dad/work mates and ‘strongly suggest’ you leave his house.

This

Your DH @Tiredboymum22 is a nasty piece of work. He has an IVA and you have poor credit yet he would rather inconvenience your relative as he doesn't want to live somewhere less smart. What is he proposing then?

What do you suggest they do

Being a landlord is running a business, whether you are undercharging or not. Part of running a business is knowing your legal obligations before you go in. That's why councils aren't lenient about this kind of thing, because it's on you to absolutely know what you are doing.

It's not just the tax - no proper checks, no deposit protection and a ton of other things which he could now get very heavily fined for even if he was a decent landlord who kept the place in good order. This was really foolish on his part, as is demonstrated by the situation the DH could end up putting him in.

OP, don’t show your husband this thread 🙄unless you want an argument with him. No idea why people suggest this, if someone isn’t going to listen to their spouse’s point of view why on earth would they listen to the views of people on Mumsnet?

Why can’t you just say you were staying with a family member this period?

then he won’t be in bother and you apply for what you want

Also, your DH needs to realise that with one of you on an IVA and the other (or both) on UC, you don't get the luxury of choice when it comes to the private rental sector. Even with a guarantor landlords are going to favour tenants with a better credit history - professional couples with no DC are often asked for guarantors these days - and it's no longer legal to take payment upfront for rent.

There are social homes that are already overcrowded, so moving back in with family and asking to be placed on a high priority band because of this may not work. You need to speak to someone who can advise you on your application and what you need to demonstrate any needs your DC have that may make a difference.

Assuming he made out he's still living there (is he paying council tax?) He could do the lodger thing.
However he could just approach Rent Smart Wales and fess up. They might give a penalty but its unlikely they would prosecute if he approaches them first. I report unregistered rentals all the time in Wales, they usually get a letter and nothing worse.

Id be very wary of a man so willing to screw over someone who has been pretty good to you all. Its really snidey and low behaviour, id be looking at him very differently after this.

@Tiredboymum22 you say you want to give him his house back but your comments read luke you’re justifying why you would not give it to him easily.
No good deed goes unpunished indeed.
Please leave his house so he can live there with his children. You know you staying in his house with your family is not right. Your DH sounds really horrible tbh. He should provide a home for his family in a decent way. He’s been paying below market rate for two years and has the cheek to want to stay there until you’re evicted
The guy was very naive, probably did that our if love for your relative.

He did you a favour and now your DH wants to make him homeless? He does realise that you won’t get to keep the house right. You’ll all be homeless

That’s why I started with the comment “if you are in a position to”’

They rent the house that the DH won’t even bother to view!

The council won’t look at any of that, but the tribunal who looks at the tribunal might.

If he can’t get you out of the house and he is already renting to you illegally I would be very concerned that he would just think fuck it and come around when you’re out and put your stuff out on the street and change the locks if I’m honest.

I was thinking this.

If the council tax has been in the LL's name all this time, and he hasn't changed his address on things like his driving licence, that might well work. OP's family would then be like paying guests or lodgers and most of the LL legal responsibilities wouldn't apply.

Many English councils would be happy for the OP to rock up with a letter from the LL saying that the "lodger" arrangement can no longer apply and that they need to find somewhere else in the next 28 days. Hopefully, Welsh councils would take a similar line.

It's bloody rare for me to be on the side of the LL in most matters, I've had to deal with too many bad 'uns over the years as part of my job, but this guy sounds thoroughly decent and it would be awful if he ended up being fucked over after keeping a roof over OP's family's head all this time.