How can reckless teenage driving be prevented?

[UncleColm]

We had that terrible crash recently in the UK which resulted in 7 deaths - RIP to the two Police Officers who were on duty.

In Ireland we had a very similar crash the previous week where five boys died - aged 15 to 17. All were wearing balaclavas at the time of the crash and were 'well known' to Guards. The family they crashed into were three sisters and a seven year old son of one of the sisters (on the way to the airport go to a family wedding) - they are all still in hospital and are very seriously injured.

The previous week, in Ireland, a car carrying eight teenage boys aged from as young as 13 crashed into a car being driven in the correct direction by one young man who is now seriously injured.

The boys seem to be from a mix of poor areas and Travellers. In death they are being celebrated by their families but where were these families when they were alive? Who lets their teenage boy out all night? And let's them produce tiktoks of their 'exploits'? Parental supervision is clearly not in place.

How can this reckless driving behaviour be stopped?

In Ireland there is a huge shortage of jail spaces and places to detain a child under 18. These kids couldn't care less if the Guards catch them - sure what's another Juvenile Caution to them? One of the boys who died was supposed to stay in his own County but had ignored it. They have no fear of the Guards or the law.

I work in a school and there is a huge amount of help available to Traveller children in particular but they still tend to not engage with any after school activities, don't do homework, don't go on school trips, leave school early, high absence rate, etc.

I read recently that, in Ireland, 50% of Travellers don't live beyond 39. In 2026 this a shocking statistic. I don't know what the statistics are for the poor, disadvantaged areas but I do know that the taxpayers provide Social Housing, child benefit, medical cards, free education, free school books and hot lunches, back to school allowances and a whole other host of allowances. There are many initiatives available to help people to stay in education and gain independence.

What more can be done? Is there any way of reaching these young males?

From the BBC website
"Court records show 18-year-old Makai Saddington pleaded guilty to assaulting a police officer and of causing racially aggravated alarm or distress to another in Middlesbrough on 9 June.
He appeared before Teesside Magistrates’ Court on 17 July charged with the offences and was given a conditional discharge for 12 months on both offences (concurrent) and ordered to pay the police officer £50 compensation."

Well done Magistrates.

Not even a slap on the wrist.

Interestingly the police have conducted a good few arrests around the organised crime associated with the vehicle theft, including firearms offences.
Its almost like criminals are going to be criminals.
Its a shame two of their own have to die before the police look into these cretins with the scrutiny they deserve.

omg you’ve reminded me of the joy riding epidemic in the 90s! Steal a MG maestro with half a tennis ball, hot wire and doughnuts all night with the older ladies on the estate bringing them out flasks of tea 😭 2026 angst doesn’t know it’s born

I don't think more rules and laws will solve anything as these sort of teenagers and young men don't observe the current ones anyway.

I'm in Ireland so it's a bit different.... I think we need to build a huge juvenile detention centre - Oberstown is not fit for purpose. I don't know where the money will come from but I think it is essential. My husband is a Guard and he says the teenagers have no respect or fear of anything. As they know there are no real consequences until they are over 18.

In this detention centre mobile phones should not be allowed for the duration. They can queue up and use a landline if they need to make a phone call. Basic life skills can be taught alongside literacy, etc. And the child benefit is redirected to the Detention Centre from the parents. Keep the kids busy in there - get them gardening, cooking, cleaning, teach them skills, etc.

We are too soft - there are generations of families who have never worked and this just isn't sustainable.

One of the parents in the recent Irish crash said she pleaded with the Judge (at a recent Court appearance) to detain her son (the Polish boy) who she said was out of control but the Judge said there were no places available.

I am angry at the parents of the teenagers who were driving but I recognise some of these parents are hopelessly out of their depth and vulnerable themselves. The State needs to step in with some serious consequences. The cycle needs to be broken.

I think if my ds ever killed someone the way these boys have I’d already be damaged - I don’t think feeling further shame would be an issue.

But I’m interested in your POV over this.

Why do you think shame in some circumstances shame is damaging?

I’ve felt ashamed of myself on a low level throughout my life and made positive changes as a result. I’ve not felt damaged by it.

It’s an interesting conversation.

We have a problem family in our street. They've been jailed for drugs and guns and are back to their old tricks (I report everything to the police).

But to stop it you essentially have to blow apart an entire huge family, keep the babies and kids apart from their relatives for life and have them adopted into sensible families. The parents are thick and criminal, so their adult kids are thick and criminal and so are the youngsters. They must have their own filing cabinet at social services.

I was ashamed of how dirty my kitchen had I got. I cleaned it. Shame gone.

There's no deterent, for anything is there now? So small offences get a rapped knuckle, ignored, then ramp up. Wonder why we once had a death penalty or a fear of the law, I don't and that's because it seems we can't keep order unless there's fear. Just my view, but seems nothing works without a fear of someone or something in our society of late, whether parents, school...

Motorway driving is a completely different skill. I paid for additional motorway lessons for both my DSs after they passed their tests but it should be compulsory.

Shame in small, manageable amounts can set social standards, which I suspect is what you mean.

But shame as your overriding emotion - to the point you leave the country over the actions of your child- is incredibly damaging.

its you saying you are inherently flawed or unworthy, inherently bad, not you focusing on a fixable mistake.
You have no way to fix that your adult child killed someone, so it’s not a helpful emotion. It will eat away at you and can lead to all sorts of mental health consequences. Consequences that impact you, not anyone else.

agree. and waiting for the stream of comments about how they were the nicest most wonderful sons/brothers/grandsons etc. I am just getting sick of it. At some point we have to say, they can't have been that great with their long list of previous charges and convictions. Families travelling to the airport. Police Officers doing their job. Lives destroyed. Some didn't get any choice or say in that outcome and some did.

Completely.

Sick to death of the fuckers. Nothing can apparently be done about them while they make the rest of our lives' miserable. It extends to more low level stuff too - seems to permeate the whole of life, making a noisier, more aggressive, scarier, swearier vibe. Things like charging round at night on their horrible noisy trail bikes, modified cars in town making their exhausts bang on purpose while pumping out incredibly loud shite from their modified stereos. It seems they think they lack kudos or power unless they're actively making lots of people's lives worse.

I only teach part time, 1st and 2nd year university students. They are frustrating and amazing in equal measure! I have a teenage daughter and am involved in a lot of school events that put me in front of a whole load of students of different ages. We are all agreed that S3s (14/15) are the absolute worst. Unfortunately this is the group that tend to hang about on the streets and give young people a bad name 🤦🏻‍♀️ But get to know them and they are pretty decent, they just get over excited when there are a lot of them together. A bit like puppies. 😆 Give them a year or two and they start to really shine.

Ditto Devon, Cornwall, Dorset and Norfolk

I said it on another thread on here but TikTok and other apps, (maybe even all phones) should have AI built in that recognises when you are inside a moving vehicle and prevents video live-streaming and recording.

What's so different about motorway driving compared to multi-lane dual carriageways? Other than that motorways are far safer?

Decent parenting is a good start, including not letting them get away with poor behaviour in the teen years. A few kids from good homes go off the rails but it’s pretty rare, problem teens generally come from dysfunctional families

All these suggestions about limiting the amount of passengers a 17 year old can have, mandatory black box, only insuring 1L cars etc is completely futile. Funnily enough there are restrictions against stealing cars and driving on the wrong side of the motorway, that didn't stop those shitheads.

I work as a complaints handler for a car insurance company that specialises in providing cover for young drivers. If they speed their policy gets cancelled. Very often we'll cancel policies because the black box has picked up the teen doing 50 in a 30 zone, or they've been caught racing etc. We'll then get an angry mum/dad calling up screaming at our staff and insisting that their little angel would "never speed" and that we're a "predatory company taking advantage of vulnerable young drivers". I'll take a minimum of 15 calls like that per day. Or if a teen has sped but it's not been egregious enough to get their policy cancelled, we'll still insure them but their renewal quote will be £1000 higher than previously, cue angry mum/dad calling to verbally abuse us.

It's fucking soul destroying.

There are well known and well established facts about adolescent brain development. It’s similar in most mammals from what has been observed. The very basic idea (to summarise lots of very complex neuroscience and behavioural science) is that in order to fly the nest (that’s safe and cosy) and procreate, we have to;

1. take the risk - it doesn’t make good survival sense to leave the safety of our parents and the nest - so biologically we are driven to take more risks at this age
2. start to identify with and fit in with our peers and be less influenced by our parents (reassuringly we do come back to our parents values - esp positive ones). Even mice drink more alcohol in the presence of peers!

So we know that the transition period between childhood and adulthood is a higher risk developmental stage. We have to accept that if we are to make the right policy and parenting choices.

"If you bring them up properly they won't go down that road at all"

If only that were true.

Have only skimmed the thread but none of this is new. I was a new driver over 30 years ago and when I had my first car, joy riding was rife, you had to use a krooklock, otherwise they'd have your car away as soon as your back was turned. No social media egging people on then. The brother of an acquaintance was one of several boys who burned to death after a crash in a stolen car.

I don't know what the answer is but it was worse then because cars were easier to steal.

Years ago my brother's friend was killed because he went in a car with another teenager who was a notorious reckless driver.

The parents of the driver had to move out of our village because people were shunning them completely.

How does any of this stop joyriding?

Where I live there are no multi lane dual carriageways. Nothing that compares with driving on a motorway.
Slip roads, lane discipline, overtaking on a motorway, I know statistically motorways are safer but it's just not something that's included in learning to drive in many areas of the UK.
Edited to say that was in reply to @Moros my quote failed.

But we have to be careful with restrictions that are based on urban teenagers
You can see this on multiple MN threads. Those of us with DC living in rural areas are used to the fact that every child gets a driving license on their 17th birthday.