to think you can't understand climate science and want kids

[sensiblefootwear]

Hoping that people will (gently, with good evidence) tell me I'm BU.

I love children and have always wanted them. But for the past few years and especially this year I'm finding the science on climate change and the tangible effects of it (houses on fire in nearby towns, schools so hot people's children have been sent home after fainting, looming food and water shortages, etc etc) increasingly difficult to ignore and I can't help but thinking it's an incredibly unwise decision to choose to bring another life into this world.

To be clear, I'm not talking about choosing not to have children because I think it will somehow have any impact on the climate, because of course it won't. I'm talking about choosing not to have them to spare them the horror of what's to come in the next few decades.

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way? I'd really love to hear from people who genuinely understand climate science and know where things are heading, but are still staying firm in their decision to have children in the future.

I have one DS. Sure, I worry about climate breakdown, war etc. However, he’s just about to start his MSc and I wouldn’t be surprised if he went on to a PHD, so I like to think that maybe I’ve given the world someone who can help.

I do my best in this life. I walk everywhere, I recycle, I use cruelty free products, and I eat vegetarian/vegan as much as I can although I do eat meat, but I do my best and what is in my control. I understand very well that the climate is in danger, but I can only do what I can do. I still want kids. I cannot control what billions of others do but I’ve been put on this earth to enjoy my time here. We are guests and the world will go on whether we are here or not.

This. The predictions are all what happens if we literally do nothing, don't improve our tech etc. We've seen the Covid vaccine come out in record time. Humans are amazing when they have a bit of motivation. Not just that but lots of animals thrive in hot weather. The worst hit will be poor countries, but that will mainly be due to poverty.

I also have my doubts about the media. I used to work in academia and everyone is so focused on getting their name out there, what's a bit of exaggeration going to do?

I’m unconvinced having fewer children is going to limit the population, in the UK anyway, as aren’t we constantly told we’re not having enough children and are an aging population and that’s why we need to accept huge levels of immigration of people, who then tend to have much bigger families? So instead of having two children, who have two children each, you can have zero children and we’ll import two people who will have six children each.

I’m confused which it is tbh. Are we having too many children or we’re not having enough?

I know it’s a lie that we need huge levels of immigration because we’re not having enough children btw. I’m just pointing out that the narratives around birth rates, the environment and immigration are somewhat flexible depending on the political aim at the time.

There’s no way I would have kids today. We have got climate sensitivity wrong and warming is happening much faster than mainstream models predicted. Maybe we’re past tipping points already. The climate science of the last 2 years is really troubling.

I need to live in the moment to be a present mother for my kids, but sometimes when they talk about what things will be like in their great future adult lives, it chills me to the bone. I think your instincts are bang on not to have them.

But what if my child is the one to stabilise the climate?

I listened to a podcast recently where the guy who was involved with the rolling out of Ai was so scared about what it’s going to do to society that he said he only wanted to have one child. His wife was devastated and he relented in the end , but I think it’s the combination of everything that’s frightening me. Climate change. Ai. Pandemic. Mass migration. Famine. It’s like everything leads to Armageddon and yes that makes me feel frightened for my kids.

Same. Most years I’ve been heavily involved in my kids education over the holidays and we do loads of enrichment stuff and reading challenges etc. This year I haven’t bothered. I’m not convinced university will even be worth it in the future. Everything feels pointless.

@beeble347 thank you, this is what I was hoping to read! And yes, will likely adopt or foster.

If your parents generation are Boomers they knew about it but still had us - Gen X and Millenials.

If you have children then you have to interpret invents differently, you have to refuse to surrender to despair, you have to actively choose how to perceive the world we live in and take action, not just have naive hope.

Oh so just like southern Canada.

😂 I have a wife...

Infanticide and abortion being illegal wasn’t always the case too.

I could be a sociopath. I mean someone has to be right? After all, I do kind of think Thanos had a point and the world was better off after he clicked his fingers..

Might take a sociopath who is prepared to take drastic action to save the human rice from itself.

I’m totally with you OP, it makes no sense to me whatsoever that people would be witnessing manmade climate change, and yet still think it’s ok to carry on creating more humans that will cause more damage. I have step kids (but chose not to have my own kids for this reason) and regularly have this debate with DH who initially didn’t want to have kids for this same reason, but was persuaded into it by his ex. I can only think it is cognitive dissonance “I can create more humans because I have an electric car and solar panels and that makes up for it” - same thing that happens when people are able to carry on eating animals despite seeing evidence of tremendous suffering, but convince themselves its ok because the animal had a lovely life skipping about in a field of wild
flowers. I guess humans are just inherently selfish beings and are able to trick our brains into making a version of reality that supports our dubious life choices.

I take your point, OP. It's also true that the urge to reproduce is fundamental for most; instinct overrides logic much of the time. Everybody bets on their kids being the ones to sail through trouble.

I don't have DC. Been pregnant a lot, but realised I wasn't 'driven' to have them and settled for a more free lifestyle instead. It wasn't a political choice.

I will, though, say I've got quite a lot of faith in humanity's ability to sort things out at the last minute! It might get gnarly for a couple of decades, then shit hits fans and solutions are implemented. Depends how much shit/fan unpleasantness you're prepared to face, I guess. We're lucky to be in the UK not central Africa.

I’m annoyed as I’ve lost the link now but a while ago I was on a website that was basically positive stuff about the world, just tons and tons of statistics of all the ways life is better now than it has ever been. It was quite refreshing.

But everyone’s child can’t be the one to do that…

Good for you.
You would think most people would still have the self awareness to understand some of the awful things people have lived through and the common sense to understand that the world isn’t currently ending and things have been so much worse for many people throughout history rather than this constant narrow minded catastrophising.

Plenty of kids live in Saudi Arabia. Sure my kids are white so more UV challenged. But we have sunscreen for that. I don’t think us having kids is even a question. When my kids have kids that might be a question but hopefully by then we have our shit sorted out a little more.

Oh I think this was the website!

https://www.gapminder.org/facts/

Although it seems a bit temperamental just now

Depends. I think most people have children for themselves. That is, most good parents will want the best for their children but ultimately they will not deprive themselves of having said child on the chance the child may not want to be here. It is always a risk even without climate change. Your child may hate life: they may have health problems, depression or just want to get of the ride.

I hear you @EvangelicalAboutButteredToast, it’s hard to have hope. 💐

It's not going to be just me though is it, that's the point I'm making, I don't think we should dismiss climate change concerns as a triviality which is how your point comes across. In fact, it would be a good thing for as many people as possible to understand and empathise with the horror that is linving in a war torn country coupled with the most dreadful impacts of climate change.

I absolutely love being around children, but chose not to have my own - and climate change was one reason.

It wasn’t the main reason I made that choice - but as time goes on, it’s become a more significant factor in why I think I made the right choice for me.

Having said all of that, I’m deeply grateful that young people like your son exist.