Bat flew into my hair, AIBU to seek further advice?

[SameOldMe]

Sitting in the garden and i bet flew into my head, no obvious marks or bites but terrified me ! Called 111 and they said as no scratches or bites just wait and see. It flew into my hair and in the panic i have no idea if it made contact or not. AIBU to call back and ask for a second opinion? Appreciate this if the second bat post in the last few days.

GPs can give rabies vaccines. I know someone who was exposed on holiday recently and she had had three vaccines across three weeks via her GP.

Try not to panic, I don’t think it’s a must do something tongiht situation, but call your GP tomorrow.

OP seriously, don't mess around with this. Aside from the awfulness of the actual incident, you were right to be worried and right to post. Pack a bag of stuff to do in preparation for a wait, and get to A&E. People on this thread who very clearly have actual professional knowledge have advised you to do this. We all know 111 isn't perfect (nothing is) - get thee to A&E. I'm sure you'll be fine, but why take the risk?

So let’s look at some numbers. The uk does not have terrestrial rabies. 2 species of bat carry EBLV-1 and -2 in the uk. Approx 0.3% of these bats carry the virus (but that’s a small sample size - and of sick, injured and grounded bats, which might reasonably be considered to be more likely to have EBLV). These bat species make up less than 7% of uk bats. So before any more narrowing, 0.3% of less than 7% of bats can transmit the virus. Daubenton’s bats (the commoner of the two) is large and tends to live near open water or woodland. Serotine bats are rarer and only live below an imaginary line running from the Wash to South Wales.

so, so far - only a maximum of 0.021% of uk bats carry EBLV. If above the wash, not near woods or water it is virtually impossible that this bat carried EBLV. If it was smaller, then probably an even smaller chance (than almost none).

then take into account that EBLV transmission requires saliva or nerve tissue of the infected animal to enter the body via a scratch with an infected claw, a mucous membrane (eyes or mouth) or saliva/nerve tissue to enter a pre-existing wound. op doesn’t mention any of those. There is zero chance the op has got rabies.

and for the genius poster who said if it was me I’d want the vaccine. I once basically frenched an Hungarian bat when it flew into my face and I am still here without prophylactic treatment. The horror.

All this info freely available on the Bat Conservation Trust website for next time, OP 😂

Try not to worry, rabies in bats isn’t common in the UK. I can see why you’re worried though, but honestly the risk of anything happening is extremely low.

There is clear guidance on this, regardless of your numbers, and from the information OP gives she should be given the post exposure treatment.
I will post again here as it’s important.

The number of people giving terrible advice here. Get the vaccine, rabies death is one of the worst deaths I can imagine.

Absolute bollocks, and a waste of resources.

@mnhq won't work. You need to report via the report button. I reported one of the sneering posts and asked mnhq to have a look at the thread as a whole. But not sure if any mods will be around at this time of night.

UK guidance risk assessment after contact with a bat

Posting the guidance here

Bats do carry rabies in the UK. (Or lysavirus if we’re being pedantic)

You have had physical contact with a bat and can’t be certain of the possibility of a scratch.

I haven’t worked in ED for years, but you would fulfil the criteria for PEP as I remember.

Recontact 111 if they aren’t useful attend ED tonight.(Also complain about your initial 111 call)

The chances are very very low, but rabies has a 99% fatality rate.

You know better than the HSA?

Ah that would be me, the “genius” poster. I do believe I said that anyone of sound mind would want the vaccine so you’ve proved my point rather beautifully.

You carry on snogging bats at your own leisure and the rest of us will follow up to date medical advice.

Dear OP
here is a link to the actual management guidance. Assuming you are in the UK.
Risk assessment is a combination of information; about where you are and what actually happened.
UK is classified as a LOW RISK country.
Your exposure is UNCERTAIN ie you can’t be sure whether you had contact with bat secretions (the guidance explicitly references the bat caught in the hair scenario)
This composite risk assessment puts you in the AMBER risk category which would suggest that you should be offered the post exposure vaccine schedule.
It’s not desperately urgent like immediate, and A&E won’t have the vaccines in stock but you probably need to get to your GP who will call your local UKHSA team for advice. They will advise they need to speak to the specialist team (RIGS) to do a proper risk assessment and order up a vaccine schedule for you if needed.
Please also don’t panic, it’s a very small risk of a rabies-like virus in a very small percentage of mainly a specific species of bat, however you should seek proper advice and refer to the guidance if you feel you are not being listened to.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63ce5d4b8fa8f53fe29c7fbd/UKHSA-guidelines-on-rabies-post-exposure-treatment-January-2023.pdf

I think it's possible the OP will qualify for the vaccine. A panicked animal is far more likely to bite.

The risk is extremely low, but lethal if it materialises.

However, I suspect it's more a go to the GP on the morning job than A&E at night
But upto you .

In your position, I'd be attending A&E waving the government guidance. Rabies is pretty much untreatable once symptomatic and overwhelmingly fatal.

Not posted before, but thought I’d offer my advice as it’s something I’ve recently encountered. Just had my fourth post exposure rabies injection today. My family woke up whilst on holiday in France to find a bat in our room and we had no idea if contact had been made or not as we were asleep and their bites can be microscopic. On returning I spoke to my GP who spoke to the rabies hotline and we had our first vaccines the next day. They took it very seriously. Yes the chance of rabies is low, but the risk is too high to ignore.

I think the Dark Knight rises and picks up the phone to 111 again.

As someone who's administered this vaccine a few times please go to A&E as you do need treatment due to direct contact with a bat. As previous posters have said you don't always know if you've been bitten/scratched but always better to be safe than sorry in these circumstances.

If they try to say it will be fine make sure you show them the leaflet as it will depend who you see as to how much knowledge they have on this. They usually have to speak to the on call virologist who will complete paperwork out of hours to be sent to RIGS. They will be able to give you your first vaccine and then arrange for your GP surgery to be sent the rest as it's not something the surgeries stock, the RIGS send the vaccines to the surgery for the staff there to administer the rest of your course.

For all the idiots on this thread from the government guidance as posted in full by @RecorderOrder

This is from your leaflet: “One of these diseases is rabies,
which can be passed on to humans
through a bat bite, scratch or contact
with the bat’s saliva. Bat rabies (also
known as bat lyssavirus) can be found
in many countries around the world,
including the UK.
Rabies, although rarely contracted
from bats, can be fatal in humans once
symptoms appear. However, prompt
treatment with rabies vaccine after an
exposure is effective at preventing the
disease. All bat bites, scratches or
other exposures, whether in the
UK or abroad, should be assessed
promptly by a health professional
so they can arrange post-exposure
treatment if needed.”

So you haven’t even read it accurately. At most it says the OP needs an assessment. And only that if you read “exposure” in the second part as devoid of context from the phrase “contact with the bat’s saliva” in the first part. Nowhere does it say “exposure” is any physical contact. Why would it? Exposure is only dangerous if it is to infected saliva or nerve tissue.

Even on the extremely cautious approach of the leaflet - understandable given the death rate - at most the OP needs to call 111 for an assessment.

The UK is free from rabies in land animals but bats can still carry it.

Sorry OP, there seems to be a lot posters on this thread who don’t have a clue what they are talking about.

The risk is vanishingly low, but the thing about rabies is that it’s so easily prevented with the antitoxin shot, but if you ‘wait and see’ until symptoms start you will die 100%. Did the call handler really say ‘wait and see’?! That’s wild.

Are you in the UK? If so, only a very small amount of bats carry rabies (0.3% according to decades of studies)

Evening, everyone. We're getting a lot of reports about 'misinformation' on this thread. Unfortunately, we're not experts on everything here (and definitely not on bats and which diseases they may or may not carry) so we can't with any confidence say that anything here is true or false or make deletions based on that.

What we will say is that we can't confirm that anyone else posting here is an expert either, so if you have a health concern we'd always suggest you seek professional advice, and perhaps a second opinion if you're still worried.

OP - we hope all turns out ok. Sounds like a nasty encounter for both you and the bat! Hope you're indoors with your feet up now and feeling a bit calmer.

She did, and was told to wait and see if she got any symptoms. Which is the most insane advice I've ever heard, as once symptoms show, it's too late.

If you take the time to look at the risk assessment guidance you will see that where contact occurs (even if you can’t be sure about a bite or scratch) she scores as amber.
Not only have I read the leaflet, many times as I have needed to in my own practice, I understand the associated risk assessment guidance which I have linked to.
Bottom line is she needs to go to ED or call 111 back. I am a medic and would be giving the treatment based on the info given here and would almost certainly calling RIGS. I would not be taking an ‘absoloute bollocks and waste of resources’ approach.