£610 a week pension demand is insane

[Thisismyfinesthour]

Just read that there is an online petition doing the rounds for a £610 a WEEK pension demand to the government.
WTAF? Is the heat melting some peoples brains? It seems over 5000 have signed it.
Where do they think the money is coming from?

We're talking tax rates/percentages, not absolute amounts. If your income is lower, unless the rate is a lot higher, then you'll still be paying lower amounts of tax, but just maybe a slightly higher percentage. But I'd be happy with equality rather than different percentages. I.e. if you earn £50k as a worker, you pay the same tax as if you have an income of £50k as a pensioner. That would be a good start. Makes no sense that your £50k income pensioner pays less tax than a £50k earning worker!

They pay the same tax

The same income tax, yes, but other "taxes" are different, i.e. NIC, student loans repayments, etc.

Not when you include NI, which is paid into general taxation

What age are you and has a pensioner hurt you?

Are you jealous of OAPs?

Haha not in the slightest. I heard someone once say that at 70 you would trade all your earthly possessions to have the health and youth of a 50 year old. And I believe them.

But as a country with ever limited resources, I think pensioners get a good deal and asking for a full time wage as a state pension is entitled to the point of being offensive.

You’re certainly invested in them having as little to live on as possible.

Now you really are being silly. I am invested in fair distribution of scant resources.

What age are you?

Maybe from all the money paid out for Asylum seakers

They can get housing benefit, just like anyone of working age does. No need to pay extra to people who don't need the money, target it at those without the means.

Yes, life has consistently improved for successive generations over history. Your father was likely better off than his father, who in turn was better off than his father... That's been a reasonably consistent pattern through history, thanks to technological advancement.

Until now. There's a lot of evidence that Gen X and Gen Y are economically worse off than their parents. 62% of Boomers owned a home by 35, compared with 49% of Millenials. Gen X is the least prepared for retirement across all age groups.

I agree with this but it’s not pensioners to blame for it. It’s Tory voters.

I don’t buy it. The message from the past should be that success is down to individual commitment and enduring security is about being prepared to do without.
Imagine no tech, no holidays, no fripperies. Today’s youth would gain a lot of freedom but are caught in a maelstrom of ‘need’. But they do still have choice.

Paying for the generation above you to have a pension worked because the generation above you was smaller than yours.

The generation below me is smaller than mine. By more than half a million. This means that they will be unable to pay for my pension. Therefore it is highly likely that I will not be able to claim a state pension until I am 70, and even then it will probably be means-tested.

And you know what? If I had £965/month from the state right now (when I'm still on the hook for a mortgage) I wouldn't starve, nor lose the roof over my head. Once the house is paid for I'd be laughing. For those on a low income who don't own their own home outright there is housing benefit.

It’s not just one generation. It’s everyone of working age, which currently covers young boomers, GenX, millennials and the oldest GenY.

I’ve contributed to three generations’ pensions during my working life, as well as helped pay off the cost of a war that ended before I was born.

Mmm!

You couldn't get a private pension when I started work. Only civil servants, teachers and fully unionised workplaces got them

Then we had 'opting out', which was an expensive farce

And then, when workplace pensions were made available to all you could still opt out - many who lived to the penny of their wages did

Then luxury of bejng able to afford additional pension payments is not open to all and is certainly not explained simply and persuasively to young people and those on low wages

Too many advisors have the same kind of attitude you showed here

So it’s our fault that the generation below yours is smaller! In good faith we paid into the system, worked a lot more years than the current generation will and generally looked after both the older and younger generation. So you think it’s ok that you shouldn’t have to pay for my pension?
it’s testament to your generations attitude of “look after yourself first” that you feel like this. I’d love to see you live on £240 a week! Oh and let’s not forget, those of us that paid for decades into a private pension, are now paying even more tax back into the pot! It’s never ending and I’ll have paid tax from the age of 16 until I die, so don’t expect sympathy from me that you have to contribute towards my state pension!

Really? Tell me how the boomers have 'ensured' that they've screwed over their kids. What did we do to make certain that our kids have been done over? And it's all bollox in the main. My children are in their 50s and one in her 40s. My eldest daughter (59) and her 60 year old husband have just retired on excellent pensions. The 40 odd year old has a good job, lovely home, 2 teenage children and a standard of living that's far better than we ever had. Tell me how I've screwed my kids over.

They don't.

Remind me which age group is most likely to vote Tory?

Or Reform for that matter...

But it's not really about "blame". It's about economic reality. We have an ageing population. Just like many countries around the world. That means that the ratio of contributors to recipients is becoming less sustainable.

We need to have serious conversations about means-testing these universal benefits - or if doing so is to expensive, at least applying taxation equally. Why should a retired finance director with a substantial annual pension pay less tax on his income than someone under the state pension age earning the same amount?

NICs need merging into Income Tax. That closes a few loopholes.

They do. NI is different to income tax. Odd that you’re so uninterested in working age people who only pay 2% NI.

I'm simplifying, obviously. But ultimately the state pension is a pyramid scheme where new entrants fund the income of those who joined earlier. When a pyramid scheme stops growing it collapses. Birth rates have fallen. This is why we will have to be prudent in order not to collapse the country's finances.

No one said that it's anyone's "fault". It's an inevitable consequence of living in a developed country. Birth rates have fallen, people are living longer and therefore the population is ageing.

The fact is that a shrinking working-age population will not be able to support their forebears to the same extent that those who came before could. So that's why the state pension age is being pushed later, and why we seriously need to take a look at means testing or reforming taxation. It's got nothing to do with jealousy or envy, it's down to hard economic reality.

I’d love to see you live on £240 a week!

I lost my job recently. Still hunting for a new one (in this AI-fucked job market). I'll have to sign on. I certainly won't be getting £240/week from UC - not even half of it, I wouldn't need to eat into savings if I did.