AIBU to appeal a private car park fine for leaving site?

[Rosesandthorns66]

Has anyone got any advice regarding a parking fine I have received in a private car park.

I didn't over stay but instead of going to the shops first, I went to the bank to check my balance at their ATM.
The fine says they've got a 20 minute recording in which period I did not return.
Also, it says reason for issuing fine is: as its a patrons only carpark.
To be honest, I didn't realise that, I only looked at the time that was allowed for parking which is 3 hours.
When I returned, I did go to the farmfoods to do a small shop.
Has anyone got any advice if I have grounds on which to appeal this.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I suppose I am in the wrong and unfortunately its an expensive mistake which I won't be repeating again.

I'm going to look at their signage and hoping that this is the part that will help me with the appeal.
Normally the time is mentioned but it doesn't say anything about you not leaving the carpark at all.

On the fine it mentions, I can't leave but thats because they just want me to pay the fine.

Besides,
The whole carpark was empty at that time and I didn't stop any other shoppers from not being able to park there.

This is irrelevant.

This happened to me recently. I apparently overstayed, but I was in the shop for 4/5 of the time (and having a whale of a time as it was a discount store). They said I could park for 3 hours max and I think I may have been there for 2, and I went to a nearby shop off the premise but had a toddler with me who slowed me down both popping out for 15 mins and in store.

These places complain that nobody visits anymore or the high street is dead, but if a car is the best way to travel there with family and there arnt any appropriate car parks, why bother going? I used to go to this highstreet all the time, but the increased roadworks (which double my bus travel time) and poor train connections, and removal of free parking for customers has meant I only go if I’ve ran out of options or I’m there for another reason. I prefer to take a short train trip or bus ride to a centre nearby.

The shops along that car park I was at have all closed down, leaving only 1 store out of 4 left, and they are a stone throw from the main centre and if you need to take out cash or something.

Businesses are killing themselves by driving away customers, giving away their parking land to ruthless private owners.

I did appeal, and I did win because they had an objection for genuine customers, which I could prove with a receipt. If I had lost I don’t think I would return. And the store I went to is constantly in local news for having closing down sales… so soon they will have a car park with no shop attached to it. Seems like that’s what they want.

I don’t know what the norm is but there is one near me that is very clear that it’s not enough to just use the shops that are there, you must stay on the premises the entire time. It’s a free car park in the town centre so I guess they don’t want people parking there, buying one small thing, then buggering off into town.

Approach the store first, they can often get them written off, Lidl here does it often when people overstay by the few minutes (usually due to the electric chargers) if no luck you can contest on the grounds that you were a customer and the extra minutes spent there had no economic impact on the store, likely to be thrown out because they wouldn’t want to spend money fighting it

Yeah I'm going to ask the Farmfoods store staff/ manager.

However, a little while back, they had a sign on their window saying carpark fines have got nothing to do with them.

The sign does say, 'Patrons Parking whilst on the premises Only' which is pretty clear that you can't park and leave the premises. I would try the shop say you had to use the ATM in order to do your shopping, say the same if you appeal. It does seem a bit unreasonable, but they may have people buying a packet of crisps and staying three hours in the car park to do the rest of their shopping elsewhere.

Yet it is frequently the exact excuse that companies and councils give when trying to justify rinsing you for £100 for something that had no effect on them or anybody else and which they wouldn't even have been aware of if there hadn't been a camera there.

Is there a public toilet nearby? If so, say you were going there.

Don't pay. Make them earn the money by taking you to court. Most will cave before the court date but even if they don't, it will cost them far more than £60 to send someone and they cannot claim back their costs in the small claims court.

Unfortunately, there's no public toilet nearby.
Today, I will go and look at the signage.
Also go to the farmfoods store, have a word with a member of staff, say I only went to the ATM.
Definitely will make an appeal before paying.

Will try and save my £60 this time and won't be making the same mistake again.

Absolutely true,

But at least at busy times, customers are being turned away if there's no parking available in the carpark but in my case they are just making money.
However, its not something that would help my appeal.

There's a case study on Euro Parking Services website regarding this specific car park. The explicit reason the parking enforcement was set up at this site, was because 40% of people parking there weren't using the shops it served, but parking and going elsewhere. That makes it sound very much like it will be very difficult to appeal it.

There's a retail park near us where they have a number of big shops - including furniture, white goods and other 'big ticket' purchases that most people take their time deciding and for which they may need to arrange finance in-store.

They have a 2-hour limit - but only visible in very tiny letters on a couple of high up signs. A family member got caught out by this and fined - even though he had spent the whole time parked there in the shops (indeed you'd have no need or desire whatsoever to ever park there for any other purpose).

Maybe this is just shops' way of telling us that they do not want our custom - that they are desperate to close down and see everybody just go online to buy everything instead. They might be chuckling with glee over getting a one-time fine, but if people then refuse to ever come back and use those shops again... it's not the wisest long-term business decision.

Even if people do return - this time fully aware of the trap - imagine working hard to close the deal on a three-piece suite, a dining table, 6 chairs and a couple of beds, and then the customer abandoning the whole purchase just before completion as they have to leave the car park. Madness.

Had 6 private parking invoices over the years. No payments made. One went to court and they lost. Just take pics and follow the process if they pursue

I’d talk to the shop manager, not the car park management company

Quire a few variables here — where the signs were, how prominent they were, exactly what they said about “patrons only”….I don’t think it would be hard to make a plausible defence.

If you want proper advice, the MoneySavingExpert private parking forum is excellent. I’d post the notice there, with your personal details and registration number removed, together with photographs of the signs if possible.

Bear in mind that the parking company itself wants you to pay, so I wouldn’t place too much faith in the first-stage appeal process. If they reject an appeal, that certainly doesn’t mean they are legally right.

If it remains unpaid, the usual next stage is a series of increasingly demanding letters, sometimes from debt collectors. Debt collectors themselves don’t have any special enforcement powers — they can’t send bailiffs round or seize anything without the matter first going to court and the parking company obtaining a judgment.

Eventually they may threaten or actually issue a county court claim. Even then, you can defend it, and a judge will look at the evidence rather than simply accepting what the parking company says. It would them well over a year to get a court date.

If it did ultimately go to court and you lost, you would of course need to pay the amount ordered by the court. For a normal private parking case the total is usually around £300 hundred pounds.

What many people find is the parking company bombard you with letters, threaten court, issue proceedings and then abandon the case. Not all the time, but often.

Yep, I read this and immediately thought "Wick Parade"

Hello neighbour 😂

Parking for patrons of which store?

If there's more than one you may have a way around it.

But she DID shop at the Farmfoods.

Why do you and others keep trying to put off people from appealing?

It doesn’t hurt to appeal. If the appeal is rejected, OP still has a grace period to pay the original charge of £60.

And Euro Parking Services are in it for the money like any other private car park. So not sure why you think their case study should stop people from appealing.

There is more than one store.
How is there a way around it, please?

But the attendant followed me leaving the carpark.

I think the issue is that often the car parks aren't run by the shops themselves.

If the signs in the car park say you can't use other shops, you are stuck. But if it's only a time limit then they are taking the mick. I'd also consider the size of the writing, too, you have to be able to see it easily from the car, not by standing right up close with a magnifying glass!

Yes, I think there's a huge difference between people who use their land for parking without the remotest intention of using the shops, and people who are primarily there to shop there but also combine it with another small errand or two - especially if one of them is sorting banking before spending money in the shop.

I've also heard it from the opposite angle: whereby large supermarkets only allow 45 minutes and thus have fined disabled and elderly people who just cannot do all their shopping in that amount of time, even though they've been in the shop the whole time... and also ideal customers who have taken longer because they're just buying loads of their products!

Nevertheless, if they GENUINELY wanted to only keep the car park clear for actual customers, it would be the easiest thing ever to put up signs saying 'strictly customer parking only', put in a great big barrier that would only rise to let you exit by inserting a token and put up big signs in the shop(s) telling you to ask/press a button after making your purchase to get the token.

But they don't do this, because in spite of what they pretend, they want people to park there against the rules and make them loads of money. In fact, where it's an independent parking company, they quite possibly rent the land to the shops for free, on the condition that they can make their money from swooping for all the fines they can issue.

@Rosesandthorns66 its the wording in the car park itself that is important.

Have you looked on Google Maps to see if you can see the sign?

What this boils down to is whether the rules are

• you CANNOT leave the site while your car is parked in the car park
• you MUST shop at one or more stores in the site, but can then leave the site
• One of these but it's unclear which

If it's the first one, you left the site and so sadly deserve the fine. If it's the second, you did what they said so there's no reason for the fine. If it's the third, you need to argue that you thought it was the second, with evidence of the wording of the sign that made you think this.