The Jason Arday scandal, part deux

[KatiePricesKnickers]

As the book launch is coming, let the discussion continue.

First thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5563599-the-jason-arday-scandal?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share
This is lifted from the thread in the education section, which is an interesting summary
https://www.ian-leslie.com/p/the-great-and-unfortunate-story-of?r=8w0woc&triedRedirect=true

Or AIBU with not letting this fade away?

I saw the clip of the interview where he said 'I was part of a program that doesn't really exist anymore' he paused before saying 7 Up but I genuinely thought he was going say Operation Treadstone and that he had trained with Jason Bourne

Accusations of racism, bullying, suggestions of mental health issues are all mostly used by people that have a need to silence conversation or debate when others are simply stating facts of a case or incident.

An example is when a terrorist incident happens and some helpful person insists the perpetrator must have a mental health issue. Well of course they do because regular people don't go around stabbing people or blowing things up. However that doesn't mean the person is a vulnerable flower or the incident should not be discussed.

In this case racism accusations were used to silence people and they are often still used to do the same despite the fact he is banged to rights. While the discussion does need to now focus on those that enabled him it cannot be done without actually discussing him to some degree as well.

Mandelson was in the Labour cabinet, so I think can safely be described as a 'left leaning figure'? Academics commit plagiarism, it is wrong, but it happens. There are a number of reasons Jason Arday has become a lightening rod and I do see that he has shone a spotlight on astonishing academic practices. But I think there needs to be some perspective in response to the malpractice uncovered.

@EnterQueene ”But I think there needs to be some perspective in response to the malpractice uncovered.”

What exactly are you objecting about? He’s been exposed as a liar and fraud, and people on social media are having some fun with it.

Maybe on other platforms it might be getting malicious, but it’s not here.

I understand your point and wish the focus wasn't on JA.

If he didn't want any focus on himself then it is unfortunate that he is publishing his memoir of triumph over adversity tomorrow, which will give plenty of new material.

He's not just some uni lecturer who embellished his CV, he made quite a lot of his 'couldn't speak till 11 etc' story, doing speeches, going into schools and talking to children etc.

He complemented malpractice with tall stories. His entire academic profile has been tainted. How do you think his students feel and what emotional and mental damage might they have suffered? No, he's invited this . We either treat people equally or we don't and that applies to sanctions, as well as accolades.

Compulsive liars and fantasists come in different race, gender, and any other characteristics you can think about. Jason is not unique and neither are prominent institutions immune from this.

If the idea is that race was the reason Cambridge fell for this, what then is the reason for Harvard falling for the lies of Adam Wheeler, Princeton for Jason Hogue, Elizabeth Hoover at Browns University? What about the Frank Abagnale (the one played by Leonardo Di Caprio). Remember he spent years a pediatrician at a hospital? What about Stewart Edwards a Civil Servant who spent 34 years as a family GP? More recently, what about Elizabeth Holmes?

We will always have compulsive liars and fantasists with us. Hounding this man and making the reason something to do about the university being "woke" conveniently ignore the myriad of instances where reputable organisations and people have been conned by white men. Those who rush to blame "woke" expose something interesting about their way of viewing the world.

I cannot help but laugh at the sheer ridiculousness of Jason's lies and would really want to know how he achieved this deception. That is on a scale of Frank Abagnale. What is it about human nature and these kinds of people that make such things happen? It's easy to say "how could anyone believe all this nonsense" but clearly they did and this keeps happening time and time again.

As we speak, someone is being taken advantage of by a con artist. Conned into giving up thousands and thousands of pounds. We then ask, how could the victim be so stupid. Alas, Jason Aday is not unique and this witch hunt says a lot about bias in society.

He is doing his real PhD on 'As a POC, how big a lie can you make in academia before someone overcomes their fear of being labelled a racists and actually challenges you'. It's progressive research where the lies become more extreme and obvious until the tipping point is reached and you are challenged. It's being supervised by an Oxford professor. It started by getting a plagarised PhD at a targetted University who were lax in this area, and progressed from there to seeing if he could get an academic appointment whilst wrapping everything in completely extreme, but easily checkable, aspects of his life. Neither he or his supervisor could actually believe how far they could go and tried to make the lies more and more obvious, but still nobody challenged him. It will be seen to be one of the ground breaking research projects of its time. On par with the Asch Conformity experiment of the 1950s.

Well that's how I would be selling it, anyhow.😀

For those defending him and suggesting he be left alone, I have two questions:

Do you support the students taking legal action against Cambridge university for taking tuition money under fraudulent circumstances and enabling harassment against them for submitting legitimate complaints that were not investigated objectively?

Would you support legal action against Arday for committing fraud against Cambridge University, Leeds Beckett University, University of Roehampton, Durham University and the University of Glasgow? Places he has taught students and taken a salary from, thereby potentially committing fraud.

He has financially benefitted from his fraudulent activity regardless of whatever mental health issues may be proported. So there are potentially crimes and victim/s that have a right to justice. Do they not matter?

This doesn't appear to be an isolated incident but potentially a long term pattern of deception. Hard to argue that mental health should be a shield from facing the consequences of that behaviour.

I should imagine students everywhere are lining up to use this as their dissertation topic. There's a myriad of directions for research.

I don't deny Arday is at fault here as someone who has manipulated a section of academia in the most cynical way, race, disability, neurodiversity etc. A pile on is in no ones interest but we can't shy away from personal responsibility and accountability.

But the reason for this story being front and centre is that to people who believe in meritocracy, this story represents so many evils. The fact that someone clearly not up to the job is promoted well beyond their competency because of their race, gender, disability or neurodiversity while more suitable candidates missed out.

The failure to identify a clearly incompetent bullshitter fantasist because he ticked so many boxes and no one wanted to admit that the emperor had no clothes is a huge open goal net to those who oppose DEI measures and identity politics.

Yes i thought somthing similar
Call it a social experiment .

One fundamental difference to your narrative.
People, including students, who challenged him were shut down under accusations of being racist. That's the difference. Of course there are frauds in all sorts of disciplines or areas of life but people who challenged those examples you cite were never shut down under an accusation of being racist or investigated by the police for asking genuine questions. That difference is still not being accepted and the narrative is being pushed towards what you are saying, along with the continuing underlying accusations of racism everytime anyone says anything about the situation.

See also " Sane in insane places ".

But the reason for this story being front and centre is that to people who believe in meritocracy, this story represents so many evils.

I strongly believe it's also because his lies are so funny and yet were believed.

On the previous thread I compared it to Nicola Sturgeon's husband and the bizarre purchases he made with the embezzled money. That story ran and ran too (and NS's husband is a powerful white male) because of each new discovery of expensive crap that he had bought that Nicola had no idea about. How could she not notice? The same incredulity applies here 'how could they not have spotted his lies when they are so obvious??'

And, tbh, it's brilliant

@Everanewbie is mediocrity only a problem when it is a non-white person.

Jason Arday should be punished. Many if not all the people I noted above had a reckoning with the law. However, there seems to be a troubling angle taken by the media to Mr. Arday's case. Rather than seeing it as another fantasist, it is being crafted as a problem of the system being woke? Is it only okay if a fantasist is white (implying that it is more acceptable and totally woke and deserving a witch hunt if it is a non-white person)?

No one should defend what Jason Arday did but the idea that this is woke because he is a black fantasist should be challenged as it raises all sorts of ridiculous questions regarding fantasists that are not white and who have achieved equally if not more accolades based on their lies.

Is he mentally ill? There must be some personality defect somewhere because this is not normal.

If Jason Arday is not unique, but this is a witch hunt because of 'bias in society', then how do you explain knowing the names of the other fraudsters? How do you explain Leonardo di Caprio playing one of them in a massive blockbuster? Was that a witch hunt? Or is there something compelling about the story of a con artist fooling everyone?

He really was playing the long game then, because he was lying about this stuff over 15 years ago.

Agree. I also think Nicola Sturgeon's husband has some mental illness (some sort of compulsive addiction). I am not a doctor but it all sounds so ridiculous.

The idea of meritocracy is an idea planted in the minds of ordinary folk by the powers that be. Meritocracy is a fantasy and not a reality. Do people really believe that top jobs and in fact many senior jobs are based largely on meritocracy?

I’ve known one too. She wasn’t even really benefiting from the lies, but people who were taken in were seriously hurt by it all. She was absolutely as sane as the next person. She just liked attention and didn’t care how she got it. When called out she just ignored it or admitted it and carried right on.

Is his book going to be in the Comedy section?

I have a feeling it's going to be in the Bestseller section.

I do not understand what you are saying but the movie Catch Me If You Can, practically celebrated Frank Abagnale.

I've also said that these fantasists faced the law but they were not dragged through the media with the pile on based on their race. Reporting was based on the facts of their outlandish claims/lies/deceit not on their race.