To get so stressed about my kids’ car behaviour

[theremightbesevennow]

There is a lot of unbuckling of seatbelts and climbing all over the car, screaming, fighting and general manic behaviour. They don’t do this alone either, it’s only when they are both together. And I’ve no idea how to deal with it (the usual tactics just haven’t worked.)

I can’t just refuse to drive anywhere as we’d never leave the house (rural.)

I've not smacked my kids but you must see your comment makes no sense. Smacking used to be common and isn't any more. Mental health issues are on the rise. There's no way you can conclude that they're on the rise because they're being smacked? Children are less smacked than ever before!

I do think children are a lot happier if they are constantly encouraged to be well behaved. It's like I said upthread, op can't fix the car issue in isolation. She needs to completely adjust her children's way of interacting with her on a daily basis. They need to do what she says! It'll take work and probably several months of adjustment

I would have lost my shit to the point they were terrified.

Yes, its sometimes necessary.

This is a very trite suggestion as one who has not only shouted, but screamed, roared, threatened to drop them off and pulled over:
M&S giant milk chocolate buttons are an elixir of compliance and bribery. I have charmed a hyper-intelligent detective sergeant with them and coaxed her out of her scepticism towards me.
Bewitch them with the allure of the treats, they are almost unobtainable, just within a whisker of the most amazing, reserved and reasonable behaviour. “Now beloved children, this journey is but five minutes. You are amazing children and will not be little dickheads if you want this candy. Fucking silence! Keep your paws to yourselves, strapped in, enjoy the rap music, and you can have the good stuff kids! It’s really special and it doesn’t come out for little bellends!”
The family conflict crisps are a whole other story, thoughtlessly deployed, blown up by my own bomb. Approach with caution.

Legs would be slapped 😂

I honestly wouldn’t tolerate this for a minute.

High back boosters with an adult seatbelt at 5 and 3?! Surely not.

In the early 70s some friends of ours met a nice couple on holiday and agreed to be in touch. They were surprised to hear from the man two days after their return. He phoned, very very distressed. He drove a transit van for the gas board. He’d been slowing down to turn left, and was doing about 10 miles an hour, when a car came out of a pub car park that was just before his turning, and there was a small collision. The two drivers got out to examine the vehicles, and the wife of the car driver opened the window so she could hear the conversation. There was barely any damage to either vehicle so they shook hands and got back in their vehicles. The Gas man had just pulled away when he was stopped by frantic beeping . The car driver had got back in his car and turned to ask his wife if she was ok and realised that their 3 year old daughter, who had been sitting on her mother’s lap, was dead. The mother hadn’t realised.
That is why it is important that you don’t make excuses about not being able to stop.
I think you should make a few journeys to do things that the children really want to do. As soon as they get out of their seatbelts, you should stop, strap them in, and take them home. Also develop what my family calls THE VOICE!

Strangely all the MH problems seem far more common now in the age of it being unacceptable to smack a child

No, they're just spoken about more.

We had similar- same age gap too. We started journey and wgen 1 started playing up, we pulled over and gave the other one a reward- chocolate bar. This was a hard one, but rewarded the good behaviour- ignored the bad, explained it to them both. Initially had to be instant reward, gradually moved to smaller rewards once we got to place/ home. Be prepared and reward the good. Don't engage with the bad. Restrap calmly and quietly, explain. Move on.

💯 this.
At least we have a name for it as we had a generation of confused children with parents who suffered from mental illness or poor mental health for years and years, causing shame, confusion, suffering.
1000’s were locked away for displaying signs of mental illness, I remember visiting my uncle, my Dad was born in 1948, two of his brothers took their own life in an era when it was a disgraceful sin. It is not a new thing.

My younger one was an arse for getting out of his carseat when younger. The day he did it to me on the M6 and tried to play peekaboo was the last straw. How I didn't go into the arse of the wagon in front of me was a miracle.

I'd tried the taking nicely, explaining, bribery, chocolate buttons, screens and indeed everything you could think of. Nope, no dice. So that day and partly out of shock I shouted at him with the full power of my lungs. Literally the both barrels treatment. Unsurprisingly he never did it again to me. I also brought and used a seatbelt lock as well. Illegal, yes but I also had a seatbelt cutter in both the front door pockets. I couldn't see the police arresting me for using a seatbelt lock somehow. I still have it if you want it, OP. It can only be undone with something like a car or house key.

Thank you. We haven’t had a repeat (yet) of the behaviour the other day. It has happened twice and hopefully won’t again.

I do think a lot of people have jumped to the conclusion that I’m a weak and ineffective parent with children who don’t do as they are told, which I do refute (but then I would!) The problem is that when you’re dealing with a child in that wired sort of state they aren’t responding to reason - not ‘oh dear, I won’t get to go to the park’ or ‘oh no, I really don’t want to lose my TV time tonight!’ It’s that sort of crazy state of mind and if it happens outside of the car I can and do deal with it but when I’m driving and quite literally have my hands tied it’s much more difficult.

Shouting at ds1 is not effective; he responds to anger with anger. (It works with ds2, although makes him cry which, well, no bad thing if it leads to compliance.) They aren’t like this separately and it does seem to be linked to (as someone said, apologies I didn’t note the username) tiredness and over stimulation, which is something I need to keep an eye on.

They have Yotos but ds2 isn’t very good with keeping headphones on and then you get two Yotos blasting out and dropped cards and shrieks and howls of indignation (ds2!) I am hoping this improves soon as his motor skills get better.

I obviously do pull over and strap them in again when it’s safe to do so but that sometimes does mean I have to wait a few moments; it isn’t safe to stop on blind bends near windy narrow roads where cars go very fast (much too fast sometimes.)

They have generally been a bit calmer so fingers crossed for calm rest of summer. Both the car incidents did happen at the end of long hot tiring days - not excusing them but acknowledging, and they do need to understand it just can’t happen of course.

@redknittingyellowknitting thats a really kind offer thank you

PM me your address and I will stick it in the post tomorrow for you.

I hear what you're saying and I don't think anyone called you "weak", but the children of stricter parents just don't even get to that "crazy state" you describe. It gets nipped in the bud before it gets to that point and there's a tighter rein of control. As an analogy, it's like a dog who is kept on a short, non extendable lead, can't go off and chase deer, because you pull sharply on the lead when they even turn their noses in that direction.

@Kingdomofsleep it was actually your post I was thinking of when I wrote that, as it did jump out at me rather. I appreciate you did not use those exact words but I think we can agree that was the inference.

I think that children of stricter parents absolutely do, all children can be absolute sods when hot, tired and you will note that I have explained a few times it doesn’t happen when I have just one child, ever. It’s definitely a dynamics thing and of course for all I know you could have six children but I don’t think it’s a ‘strictness’ thing. Yes, in days of yore you could deal with it with physical chastisement but that isn’t a thing now and other consequences can be difficult when you need something NOW, in the moment.

I do think if I was that hopeless they’d be awful separately and all the time; they aren’t.

No one is calling you hopeless. People are just making suggestions.

Since you ask, I have two kids similar ages to yours. No, not all children are the same level of absolute sods when they're hot and tired. They get grumpy yes, but climbing around inside a moving car and sticking your head out of the sunroof is unusually unruly.

This was just my point about post-lockdown families getting more isolated- you lose perspective and think "all families are like this" but they aren't.

And of course "physical chastisement" is an absolute no.

@Kingdomofsleep I think your opinion was clear; that’s fine but I am also allowed to defend myself.

Yes of course I'm just sorry you seem to feel I'm attacking you. Hopefully you can find a quick fix for the car issue in isolation without changing anything else about your parenting.

It did feel a little like that, yes, so thank you for the apology and as noted we haven’t had any repeats, yet anyway!

It takes a split second for a reckless driver to hit you or you to lose concentration and both your children will be dead ! I would honestly show my 5 yo footage of what happens if you're not buckled in during an accident id scare the living crap out of him so much he wouldn't even dare look at the buckle let alone touch it .
Or you could always do an emergency stop to teach them a lesson ( obviously not fast enough to injure just enough they come off their seat and scare them)

Totally agree

a smack is not violence and if you don't know the difference you're the incapable one

In the majority of European countries, including Wales and Scotland, the assault of children is illegal. The ban includes smacking. My parents brought my brother and me up without smacking in the 1960s and 1970s. My brother and I have followed their example. Neither my parents, my brother nor I are incapable, despite all of us defining smacking as violence. If you are an assaulter of children living in England, you're off the hook.