Housing Crisis - 5 in a two bed flat

[Westcountrygal]

I was flabbergasted to recently learn about so many people sharing incredibly cramped living conditions. A Scottish MP saying on the radio that he grew up sharing with his two brothers, effectively three kids to a bedroom.

A colleague living in a two bed flat with her three kids, older ones sharing and baby in with the parents- where will they all go as the kids get older?

I live in an incredibly expensive city and coming across so many people living in very cramped living conditions must be so difficult. Where do people even keep all their clothes/ endless washing/ belongings?

After his parents marriage broke down,DH f got custody, because his mother went off with another man,he ended up sharing a double bed with his b and f, sister and gran shared the other bed.... not bedroom

Space and rooms aren't necessary for happiness or quality of life. The happiest days of my life were the summers I spent at my grandparents house in rural Ireland. There would be my grandparents, my parents, 2 cousins and me and two siblings in a two up, two down cottage with no bathroom, just an outside loo.

My MIL was the youngest of 19 children. The family home was even smaller than my GPs, just three rooms on one level with a loo at the end of the garden. When MIL developed dementia she relived those childhood days. It was a joy to watch her obviously happy memories play out.

Space and rooms aren't necessary for happiness or quality of life.

Of course they are - they have a direct impact on quality of life. Space to study, privacy, ability to have people over, space to pursue hobbies. All things that impact quality of life!

Yes, I'm amazed at this. 19 children (& parents) in a 3-room house is ridiculous. Surely, it's because it was just what they knew. If you gave a starving person a bag of flour, they would be so happy; but it doesn't make it a delicious, well-balanced nutritional meal.Thankfully, they had opportunities to have enjoyment in life in spite of their appalling living circumstances.

If they'd ever had chance to experience living in a house that was sufficiently big enough for them all, I doubt they would have such fond memories of their severe overcrowding.

Indeed. There have been families living in cramped conditions forever - I lived in a 2 up, 2 down house (with no bathroom, just an outside toilet) with parents and 2 brothers until I was 16 and finally gained the privacy of a room to myself and the luxury of a bathroom!

I don't mean that this should be acceptable - but if overcrowding for some families is a housing crisis, then there's been a housing crisis all my life (I'm 58) and much longer.

Unfortunately, the need to build more houses has simply resulted in the building of more unaffordable (to those living in such cramped housing) dwellings.

It’s a relatively new concept that children need their own room. I shared a room with my sister growing up as did my brothers. My children have their own rooms and we have one spare. I would have liked more children but it didn’t happen. Bedroom numbers weren’t a consideration tbh as my two slept in the same room for a few years anyway.
My mum grew up in the 40’s / 50’s in a 2 bedroom cottage with 5 siblings, it can’t have been comfortable but I have never heard her complain about her childhood. Thats just how things were when you owned your home and had a big family.
Our closest neighbours have 3 children in a two bedroom cottage inherited from a grandparent. They just get on with it. I think those who own are less likely to complain.

I think it depends on the set up of the place. A two storey two bed with a garden is different to a two bed flat.

My neighbours are in a 2 bed no garden flat with two kids and expecting a third. I can't speak for them, but I imagine it will get increasingly difficult for the eldest to focus at school and have privacy. We can hear the toddler through the walls already - he screams a lot so I can't imagine the mayhem with another baby!

Sorry what? 19 children?! And in a 3 bed house?!!!

I also agree that having your own private space is important, even as a child. I know it's a bit 'first world problems' and all that, and people used to share a bedroom with 2, 3, and 4 siblings (even more sometimes) but still, that doesn't change the fact that people need solitude and their own private space. Coming from a huge family (who are not rich, and living in a normal house or flat, with 4 bedrooms or less,) and never having your own space is exhausting and not ideal for anyone...

In the families I knew in the 1970s, and 1980s the people who shared a room with a sibling - or 2 or 3 siblings, hated it, and couldn't wait to leave home. In every family, the older girls left home and got their own place before they were 20, because of having to share with 2 or 3 sisters... Boys stayed longer with mum and dad, but even then, they would usually leave by 23-24 at the latest.

Apart from couples, NO-ONE wants to share a room with other people, not even family, and if people were really honest, they would admit they would have preferred to have their own bedroom, rather than sharing one. At least after the age of 8 or 9. My brother and I had a bedroom each, and both of us would have been mortified at the idea of sharing, but we still always had a good, close relationship. We didn't need to share a bedroom to be close.

Sorry what? 19 children?! And in a 3 bed house?!!!

As I understood it - may have been wrongly - it was a 3-ROOM house i.e. 3 rooms in total. 3 separate bedrooms would be crazy enough for that many people, but it sounded even more drastic than that to me.

There has to come a point after which you're no longer housing people but rather storing them.

I think it depends on the set up of the place. A two storey two bed with a garden is different to a two bed flat.

My neighbours are in a 2 bed no garden flat with two kids and expecting a third. I can't speak for them, but I imagine it will get increasingly difficult for the eldest to focus at school and have privacy. We can hear the toddler through the walls already - he screams a lot so I can't imagine the mayhem with another baby!

3 room house?! Blimey that's even worse!

Some people in some parts of the world, do live like that now though. Many of us in the 'first world' are quite fortunate.

Agree A friend of mine is one of eight and because there was only one loo in the house there were often "accidents"

Oh gosh that’s dreadful!

You make a good point actually - has anyone discussed the impact of overcrowding on overall health, spread of disease etc?

It’s just what you’re used to, we shared a room in early childhood as did my children and loved it! Whereas have heard of people talk about terminating a pregnancy just because they ‘don’t have space’ etc which is far more shocking to some of us. Now we do have rooms for each is the children and more than one toilet in the house, which felt like quite a luxury when first had and can definitely see the up sides but isn’t the be all and end all

That seems far fetched, I lived most of my life in a house with 1 toilet and a big family as did others I know and never heard of such a thing

Yep my mum as a child only had atoilet at the end of the yard ( she’s 85) She’s never mentioned any accidents and I know my Nana was very houseproud so I can’t see that ever happening .

On this thread or in the health profession? It is very well known that density of population can increase the impacts of contagion and disease. It’s worth remembering that the housing overcrowding that everyone quotes in a ‘they put up with it so why can’t you’ kind of way was something that really accelerated with the Industrial Revolution, and was not welcomed by those affected at the time. The rich always take that approach to the poor if they get the chance.

This situation is different to what I am referring to. People who just keep having kids despite their cost!

My daughter's friend comes from a family where there are 8 children, 2 adults, and 3 dogs in a small 3-bed house.

I went to school with a girl in a household like this. House was immaculate as they weren't allowed to spend time at home. The mother was very house proud, children were expected to stay in back yard/on the street for most of the day. Once they became early teens they had to get jobs or go to the public library to do homework.

I work with families like this and I must admit I was a bit crestfallen by the lifting of the 3 child cap. They will continue to have more DC but the extra money will not benefit them. Many of the women of these large families have a lot of self esteem issues so it's not an easy fix.

Yeah you are right. Things like flu and bugs never ever happened. They never ever ever caught anything like that, Because they just dont exist Must remember to go on the next thread and tell the next parent that is moaning about a tummy bug going through the house and tell them tummy bugs flu norovirus IBS etc just dont exist and its all a figment of our imaginations FFS.

Did they all have chamber pots/gazunders, though? And did the lads nip out to the garden to 'check on something' quite frequently?

I think the dogs are almost the worst bit of it. You've already got a seriously overcrowded house but you still decide that you've got room (and the time) for a dog as well - and not even just one dog, but three! Most people with only a couple of kids and a bedroom each still don't have three dogs!

Ditto en-suites. I grew up in a three bedroom, one bathroom house with a downstairs loo. It wasn’t a small house but it was built in the 50s when the trend was to make rooms, halls and landings larger and lighter instead of squeezing in extra bedrooms and bathrooms. You even get2 bedroom flats with an a suite and family bathroom now.