AIBU to think aphantasia is not rare?

[Sunninginthecorner]

I was doomscrolling insta and a video came up about aphantasia.

Rather than explain what it is badly I found this:

Aphantasia is a condition in which people do not visualize, or see, images in their minds. This rare way of processing information and recalling memories affects about four percent of people. Close your eyes and imagine a fluffy cat. What color is the cat? What is the cat doing? When asked such questions, many people will conjure up a lifelike visual image. But others do not. People with aphantasia know they are thinking of a cat. They can even describe what a cat generally looks like. But they do so without “seeing” a cat in their mind. Instead of using their ‘mind’s eye,’ someone with aphantasia may think using words, numbers or ideas.

Brain scans show that people with aphantasia respond differently to sounds than people who use mental images.

I can’t see images and my very small poll IRL hasn’t found anyone who does see images.

IABU - you can see in images and it is rare
IANBU - you can’t see images and can’t believe it’s that rare

Yep, and it would be dangerous.. you would have to have a blank mind whilst driving.

no, its a real thing. Its not a hallucination as its limited to memories or things the eidetiker has actually seen. Its a funny thing. When I first learned about what i had, some 30 ish years ago, the descriptions of what it was were much tighter and much more like my own experience. Then people started to focus on studying the different ways that brains function and things the researchers thought they knew sort of crumbled. There also used to be information online about people who could control the projection so they could project the image onto a blank surface and then pencil over the image to give an actual picture of the projection. Kind of like a camera lucida. Its a funny thing. Its uncommon anyway, commonest in young children which are not good subjects for research. Its also more likely to be not under their control so even if you think a child can do it, getting them to do it on request presents other problems. Additionally of course children do have a tendency not to realise that what they can do is unusual and, like me, may not ever mention it while they can still do it.

I agree, when i first learned about what i could do as a child, I was really glad that it faded as I left young childhood because adult life would have been really dangerous! Even when i could do it, it was pretty rare...say 5 or six times between probably age 4 and 9.
There are researchers who say that the phenomenon doesn't exist and of course, like the stuff on here, people can only describe how their perception is to them which proves (or disproves) nothing.

@godmum56 I've never even heard that term before-but now I'm super interested! Gonna have a read up about it. It sounds like something I'd love, too bad it's not something you can learn.

There's loads of stuff kids are more attuned to that fade into adulthood-like seeing ghosts etc. sorry if you're not a "woo" person lol, just the first thing that came to mind.

i am on the fence about ghosts but to invert it, is it possible that some sightings of ghosts by young children could be eidetic images? If you find anything about eidetic imagery that doesn't conflate it with photographic memory, I'd be glad if you could post a link please? the stuff I have found before seems not to be around now.

Depends whether you consider 4% as rare or not?

if you are talking about being an eidetiker than I don't think its reliably known how rare or common it is. Anecdotally I have posted online about it many times and never had a response from another person.

I think it is quite rare. My job involves working with non creative people on publications etc. I have only worked with one person who really couldn't picture what something would look like until it was in front of him. I found it really odd.

I can't see things in my mind. Ask me to close my eyes and see a red apple. Nothing.

I dont have any inner monologue.

When I dream I cant see people's faces in my dreams but I know who it is.

MN was the first place I learnt people don't all see images in their mind. But today you're the first person who's made me realise that that can make it really difficult to do creative art etc.

If someone tells me to draw a cat, I can sift through the library of cat images I have - my own cats, cats from holiday, famous cats, cartoon cats, other people's cats - and then attempt to reproduce them. I am absolutely terrible at art. Very very poor. But I'm 100% able to imagine that cat, I just can't draw it in a way that makes it look like a cat!

Really interesting in terms of different learning styles with children. It makes some tasks literally impossible.

I'm on the fence about ghosts too-I used to believe but not sure I do now.

Ooh great theory! That could explain things in a scientific way for the non-believers!

It does seem to be related to having a photographic memory from a brief look. I'll google some more and see what turns up.

This is a very interesting thread - never heard of this. This comment is making me wonder if this is why some of us love reading more than others. It sounds like the 4% are on this thread!

That never occurred to me! Thank you for sharing. I can hear Freddie's voice clear as day singing 'dayo' etc. And the Biscoff Dairy Milk I had yesterday I can remember the biscuity texture as the chocolate melted. And the hot breath of a horse softly whinnying in my ear.

But because no one else can ever be in your head it's amazing when people share what's in theirs. Thanks everyone for sharing the inside of their heads!

Yes it is absolutely the reason I loved reading so much. I had a brilliant mind's eye and imagination but I lost it after a head injury and post concussion syndrome a decade ago 💔😢 So, my aphantasia is acquired and I've experienced both (sadly)

@ItsGettingHotInHerre I can't draw from visualisations either. I think it's because even though I can see the likeness of a person or animal in my head, I can't see their features well-so I wouldn't be able to draw them accurately. Although to be fair I've never tried. I just know it'd be a disaster haha.

I had a friend in school who could, I was very jealous of her ability to just sit there and draw her favourite actor from memory.

I can listen to podcasts whilst I do something else menial or repetitive. I see the images/film type display as a sort of overlay. I can still see what I’m doing through it. But if I want to focus on paying attention to the images etc in my head then I can’t be overly distracted by whatever else I’m doing. I mean, if I paid attention to all of the crap that presents itself to me then I’d never have crossed a road solo!

You are conflating the mind's eye and the ability to draw. Both are different.

That’s why it’s called maladaptive daydreaming! It’s very, very tempting at times. I’ve definitely gone to bed early to focus on my own stories. And I’ve avoided reality for years that way - it’s very common for people with PDA (pathological demand avoidance) to use it to avoid reality!

While I have aphantasia and absolutely love reading.

I had no idea other people actually saw images in theory minds eye till recently.

I spent most of my childhood with my head in a book, and love being lost in a good book.

ForeverDelayedEpiphany your experience is pretty rare and I can totally understand that you would feel loss and it just wouldn't be the same for you.

However, for those of us who had no idea we were missing out on internal images, reading has no sense of loss.

I love a good story and feel transported to another world when I read a good book.

So, I think the relationship is much more nuanced than ForeverDelayedEpiphany suggests, as you certainly don't need to have internal pictures to love reading or to be a book worm.

I have it, my partner does and one of my two DC.

I mentioned this thread to my DD yesterday (she can see images) and her friend who was visiting was shocked to learn that other people can see images in their mind, so another aphant. Turns out she has a very chatty inner voice though. My partner - silence, but can hear music at will, as can DD. I can't :(

So, it's not that unusual in my world!

We're all ND and I strongly suspect there are crossovers with neurodiversity.

How about you, mcmuffin, are there many ND people in your line of work?

I'm quite confused now and a quick Google search didn't help but what exactly does it mean to have aphantasia?

I have quite a vivid imagination and if you asked me to imagine a fluffy cat I absolutely could and describe it in all detail to you including face expression, etc but I can't actually see it the way I could see a cat that's in front of me. I meant I can't literally see a picture. Can anyone do that? I thought aphantasia just meant that you can't imagine the cat (apart from what you know in general about the species cat) but is that true?

I ak absolutely terrible at recognising faces. I thought that's due to my ADHD but I had no idea it was linked to aphantasia.

No, I am pretty sure I can't have aphantasia. I don't think not having aphantasia means you can actually see images with your eyes closed. I think most people just see black or lighter patterns like me but are actually imagining seeing the cat rather than really seeing it. I mean I can imagine a cat irrespective of whether my eyes are closed or not but when I close my eyes I just see black. That's normal, isn't it?

Apparently most people can actually see images. Nuts, right?? I has no idea until recently!

no that's one thing that hasn't changed in understanding although some internet stuff says it has. "Photographic Memory" is related to long term memory storage and being able to recall something after months even years. "Eidetic Imagery" is short term memory related.

yup, I have a mind's eye but can't draw at all