AIBU to think quotas can undermine merit?

[Zephyr888]

I need to start by saying how proper saddened I was hearing about Ann Widdecombe. It’s absolutely awful, that, to think someone with such a character and life ended up going like that. Truly horrific.

I caught a video on YouTube of her talking about her time in the Commons. I’m not wanting to get into a massive debate about her personally (I don't think that would be appropriate right now), but the point she made about the way people get picked for roles these days really got me thinking. Again, I don’t want this thread to be about her, but it is about the wider issue she was talking about.

AIBU, or have we totally lost the plot with positive discrimination and filling these quotas now?

I’ve been trying to get my head round it, specifically how it’s panning out in the public sector. I think it’s time it was binned off for good! This has been going on for 25 years now ever since the Blair years. The powers that be have binned off proper merit and just swapped it for these identity targets. It’s not just a bit of a headache; it’s actually damaging. When you start prioritising box ticking over whether someone is actually up to the job, you’re just asking for quality to nosedive.

Think about it. An example was given in the video interview where you've you’ve got some local lad who’s been in the community his whole life, knows everyone, put the graft in, kids went to the local school, uses the NHS, then he gets told he can’t stand for a seat because it’s reserved for a woman. It’s absolutely crackers. You’re just ignoring everything he’s done and the experience he’s got just to hit a number. How does that make any sense?

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are barriers out there and the system isn’t perfect for everyone. But surely we can do better than this? Why not fix the pipeline instead of just messing with the outcome? We should be putting the effort into proper mentoring and education. Make the criteria public and measurable. Actually go out and hunt for the talent instead of just reserving seats and hoping for the best. That’s how you build a decent, qualified pool of people, not by playing this quota game.

Anyway is it actually possible to have a fair system without binning competence just to fill a few quotas? Curious what you lot think. Has anyone else witnessed this sort of thing happening first hand, or even benefitted from it?

Of course you are right.

You need to select and appoint on genuine merit.

But you need your "selectors" to fully believe in this and act upon it.

The UK as a whole is much better than it was at this a generation ago.

Quotas are a ridiculous way to go today although some may argue that on the past they had some use because they demonstrated that (say) appointing a woman to a job was not a disaster!!

But no one with any self respect today wants to live with the feeling that the only reason they got the job was because they were a woman or black or whatever and when that does happen it actually reinforces prejudice.

Sorry just to add that I have done what you requested and addressed your question rather than talking about AW. But horrified by that obviously.

The problem is that selection on merit often isn’t really on merit. Do you really think that the range of frankly mediocre middle aged middle class white men who are in so many positions of power in government and work places are genuinely the best candidates? Do you not believe that discrimination has excluded women or disabled people or people of colour or working class people in favour of people who are assumed will be the best fit for a role simply because that is “the norm”?

Positive discrimination is an attempt to overcome unfair hurdles, it’s not just quotas for the sake of quotas. It gives those with talent who would otherwise be overlooked due to discrimination a chance. I say this as a British Asian woman who had to be twice as good as my white male peers to get the jobs and recognition for my work. I have made my name and am well respected now, but 20 years ago, I was the only woman in my department, and one of only 6 in my field. I was the only brown woman. Can you have any idea what it was like to have to prove myself? Imagine the level of scrutiny I faced due to an assumption that I wouldn’t be as good? I wasn’t a quota hire, but the playing field was not level and positive discrimination is an attempt to do so.

Every time a woman or person of colour makes an error, everyone assumes that the rest of that group might be the same. But every time a white middle aged and middle class white man messes up, it’s seen as an individual failing.

Yes agreed. As I said you need to ensure that the selectors (whether for a job or an MP or whatever) believe in meritocracy.

In my experience this means the private sector is much better at being meritocratic than the public or voluntary sector. In the private sector there is generally a desire to be as efficient as possible and make money. This means that in theory at least there is no room to carry inefficient middle aged men. The public sector is generally less concerned about efficiency!