How and why do people who aren’t actually well off pay for this stuff?

[Watersunscream]

If I told you our income I would be told we are in the top percent of earners etc but I honestly couldn’t actually justify or financially manage these sorts of purchases.

Has anyone heard of the essentials brand? Literally hundreds for a tracksuit. I think another is Bergen? Expensive t shirts. Then there’s the usual like Fred Perry etc.

Obviously I know lots of wealthy people buy these things too but it’s mostly people from low income backgrounds. How do I know this? Because people I work with who live in deprived areas and not paid much are forever talking about these things! They actually buy the stuff for holidays or as gifts at Christmas etc. Is this a misguided attempt to gain status? An insecurity thing? I find it really bizarre, it wouldn’t ever cross my mind to spend this.

This is really interesting to me! I am definitely in the camp of finding it a dopamine hit to know how cheap I got something. Vinted is my favourite for this because I love a bargain. I’ve been in a position of being very close to not being able to afford what we need and it definitely wasn’t enjoyable to count every penny.

Haha, I was very confused when teenage ds started trawling Vinted for Essentials 😄

It let’s say a tracksuit costs £200, but you wear it every other day for a year, it’s only cost you £1 per wear, so perhaps it’s not too bad value and you feel good wearing it, it’s the same brand your mates are wearing, you fit in and you’re wearing a £200 outfit so you feel good.

I think it’s that.
But the display is mainly to their own ilk so they don’t realise that actually it sends out a different message to other people, imo.

If you look at the drive for labels as we know them now it really came from the football terraces in the late 70’s and early 80’s mainly from Liverpool and London. Labels like Nike, Adidas, Lyle & Scott and then Italian labels like Diadora were huge. I can remember lads spending £40 on trainers 45 years ago.
It was the 80’s, globalisation, the influence of celebrity and affluent TV shows and of course magazines which drove ordinary earners to designers. I saved up for my first designer dress at 17 - I earned £1.75 an hour and it cost me £175. Lots of extra hours worked out of school, bits of extra pocket money and birthday money but I saved for it. And I wore it for 10 years. No fast fashion.
Yes, it felt like wanting to belong but to me it was about social mobility and the fresher opportunities for young women.
Since then the explosion has been huge and luxury fashion is a global force.
And the expensive stuff is getting more so. A Chanel 2.55 bag was about £750 25 years ago. Now it’s about £11k.
There are so many more fakes now so people with real money move towards quieter brands but I’ve seen even those been copied. It was very much a part of the TV show Succession, where they laughed at lower-class people wearing Burberry or Tom Ford.
Those with the big money go for couture or real rare vintage - I recently spotted some Chanel sunglasses from the late 80’s going for £38k.
The thing is if you think an £850 Gucci t shirt makes you look rich you are delusional.
To me real designer fashion used to be about quality eg cashmere sweaters, wool suits. But now even the best brands produce overpriced leggings, jeans, trainers.
When I ask a young person in labels about what they are wearing they don’t often know what any of it is - they just know the names.
I grew up loving both Armani, Versace, Westwood, Galliano, McQueen etc and their personal stories and visions. Different times.

And I’m the opposite. I have a 3 bed semi and we need to move. I would rather get a bigger house that brings me joy every day than prioritise holidays that only last a week or two. We love camping as a family anyway which is much cheaper after the initial outlay for the equipment.

@Watersunscream, it’s perfectly fine that we have different preferences and priorities that bring us all joy.

Poor people spend their money, wealthy people invest it.

All the millionaires I know don’t look wealthy!

Seems unlikely. Someone’s buying £50k Hermes bags or they wouldn’t be on sale.

I think people growing up/ living in deprived circumstances sometimes want to hide that and expensive brands, or the latest fad items can feel like a way to do that. People who are financially comfortable or wealthy are much more likely to hand down clothes, be happy openly buying second hand, ime.

Presumably Nike and Adidas are actually good for sport? While I wouldn't be bothered about a label, I would have bought sportswear from brands because they are likely to be comfortable/helpful for sport.
Eg Adidas trainers protected me when running better than unbranded, Sweaty Betty leggings don't slip down, so I'd rather have paid more for something decent that will last and help me run more.
While you are talking about status, OP, people from any background might be into sport and the well known brands are likely comfortable and reliable, and some people genuinely prioritise that.

Really? So if they got a loan to say consolidate credit cards they would have to declare it even if it was only in their bank for 10minutes?

Thats crazy because repayments on credit cards are huge compared to a bank loan.

Only the wealthy can invest. There's no reasonable investment that will replace the housing benefit you'll lose by having £6k in shares!

I agree with the comments upthread about savings thresholds and benefits. I don't know what the solution might be: there have to be cut-off points. Hoping the very recently improved integration of the DWP with HMRC and banking data will lead to a more workable stepped system. It's early days yet, though, and they're obviously being cautious about how much information is shared.

Meanwhile ... there is steak in my fridge and I'm wearing Matalan 😂

They would only have to declare it if they still had it at the end of their assessment period (which is monthly).
Of course, they can spend it before then and DWP would be none the wiser, but claimants have random reviews where they have to send in 4 months of bank statements etc, so it would be flagged then. But if the money was used to pay off debt, replace a knackered car etc, then it would be fine.

@Watersunscream this is actually a really interesting thread.....I have no idea why, and I definitely don't judge, but the psychology behind it is interesting.

Debt repayments are 'permitted use'. The system could definitely be better ... But if the PP needs this car to earn money and it's not a ridiculous choice, it will be allowed.

It's choice a lot of the time.

So if one of the dc asked for a £200 tracksuit I'd fall about laughing and say we aren't paying that much for a tracksuit.

But could we buy one? Yes, if we chose to. I could buy one for each member of the family if I wanted to, but I'd far rather spend that £1000 on something else (as would they) so we wouldn't.

But if the dc came back and said this was really what they desperately wanted, and didn't change their tune over time, then I'd look into it. Is there a sale? Does eBay have any second hand? Would they like money towards it for Christmas? granny might put money towards it too?
And that would be their choice.

I'd say with the dc, one would think that was ridiculous for an item of clothing, one might decide it was worth spending their earnings on, but they would probably be looking at the second hand market (they've just got themselves the pair of DM they were desperate for a year ago and we had a similar conversation - they got them for half price, so all is happy) and the other really can't care less about designer, in fact I think his opinion on clothes in general is a necessary evil, so I can't imagine the conversation would come up.

I guess they give priority to branded goods. May I ask what you and your partner do for work @Watersunscream

My son wanted a nike tech fleece hoodie
£70!!!!

Got him one on vinted for £13

What I’ve noticed is builders living way beyond their means. They seem to have the money to buy all kinds of things. I assume they can borrow a lot…

Sales. 😂

Is this true?

I was at Speech Day yesterday and the millionaires looked wealthy - sparkly diamonds, beautiful pearls and gold, expensive handbags etc.

On a regular day, I can easily count thousands of pounds in quarter zips and such; and stupid money in car value.

The clothes may not have brand names plastered across them, but they're not walking around looking poor either.

Another one of those how can other people that are poorer than me afford to buy things, mocking and nasty.

Who are you to police what other people purchase?

And why do you care?

Concentrate on your own life. 🙄

When I was very young my dad had a large cash income and we all had great stuff… lived in a council house but we were all kitted out. A lot of the time it’s because they have a lot of cash but don’t have more than £12,000 yearly going in the bank.

Not saying it’s right but in my experience this is the answer to your question from a former povo.

Yes. It’s a bit daft. You could buy a 10k car on a credit card and UC don’t need to know anything about it, but any amount of money over £6k in your bank account has to be declared, even if it’s just in there minutes.