To think you either organise a fun school trip for the whole of year 7, or for none of them?

[BretonStripe]

Ds is in Yr7 in a large state secondary - circa 1700 pupils inc 6th Form.

The other week parents were asked to fill out an expression of interest form for an upcoming end-of-year enrichment trip to a fun place not far away. Ds and all his friends all wanted to go, so I duly completed the form.

We found out last week that it was oversubscribed and only most of the kids got a space. The rest, inc ds who was gutted not to get a place, have to stay at school where teachers "have worked hard to come up with some engaging enrichment activities" for them there.

Apparently names were chosen at random, and no, those who wanted to go who didn't get a place won't be given priority on future trips. I think the school should have booked somewhere where all 300 kids could go, split over two days like other local schools I know, rather than disappoint a load of 11 and 12 year old children.

AIBU? What do other schools do?

Why on earth does it cost £200 a day to release a teacher?

As a former secondary school teacher, I would like to explain how much more difficult it is to arrange trips, compared to Primary/Junior schools.

1. In Primary schools, there's usually a class teacher who sees the children everyday, for registration and most lessons. Some teachers specialise in say Music, or Maths. So they may see each class once a week, or teachers double up to team teach. In Secondary schools, there are several classes in each year group, at least 6, in bigger schools 12 or more. There 5 year groups, 7 if there's a sixform. Most subject teachers are attached to a tutor group, that they register and are responsible for Pastoral care, admin, attendance, achievements etc. Then each teacher has a timetable, a simple one of 5 separate hour lessons, 10, 30 minute lessons, or a mixture of single and double lessons. In an average day, a Secondary school teacher may teach year 7, year 8, year 9, year 10 and year 11. Plus sixform Lower and Upper is there's a sixform. Subjects are block timetabled by year and each year has a different number of lessons per week. For example Science, year 7 2-3, year 8 same, year 9 3, years 10 and 11 5-6. No two days are the same and arranging revision lessons, tests and practical work is a logistical nightmare. An average Primary school teacher mostly sees 1 class. A Secondary teacher sees up 12 different classes a week. School trips are so tightly regulated and so difficult to arrange these days, that rules have to be adhered to, numbers of pupils to teacher ratio, seats on the bus, allowed group size at the venue and how many teachers can the school manage without given that they take 6 classes a day ( including their tutor group). I'm suggesting these reasons might be responsible and I'm sympathetic to your dilemma being a parent myself but I'm sure there's a very good reason. You could ask the teacher if they need more helpers to go, some schools ask parents. Good luck.

To pay for a supply, and £200 is very cheap I work in school finance and it's nearer £300

Just help your son deal with the disappointment the best way you can. Maybe take him somewhere fun at the weekend.
High school brings all sorts of “unfairs” but you and your son will learn to cope with them as time goes on.
Year 7 we had things like this and I was so stressed and daughter so upset.
Year 8, little less upset
Year 9, barely notices

it will be ok in the end.

Same I work in primary but lets be honest organising a trip for primary is much easier than a secondary. I'd hate to work in finance in secondary! Perhaps the difficulty is the availability of coaches for such a large number of children and the lack of staff for the ratios. They just need to make it more clear in the beginning so as to avoid upset or split the trip over different days or offer a fun alternative for those that can't attend. I imagine it's a right ball ache organising a trip in secondary.

Yeah that’s not fair . My experience has been my DS has been offered a list of like 5 options and the kids sign up to the one they want to go to and give a second and third choice as well so even if they don’t get their first choice all kids have a day out to go on

Why is it 1:15 for teachers? At primary we take 1 QTS, 1 TA and a parent volunteer (however many needed), so a higher ratio, but much lower release cost to the school.

Seems silly to only leave out a few. My daughters school have arranged an entire school day out for next week to the beach. A single year group should be easy.

Former evc, gcse and 6th form teachers are freed up now, and although the unions frown on it, they could be used to cover lessons(usually reciprocal if theres been extra revision sessions. Likewise the teachers who would be teaching year 7 that day and if year 10 are on work experience, their teachers also . Pastoral staff go to make up numbers. Unless its a high risk (doubtful on a day trip) ratio can be 1:20.
Saying that, my previous school now do activity week, with no formal lessons, and activities for each key stage, so year 9s are on a residential. And there's trips and activities for everyone else.
Saying that, when my kids were there and it was year trips, my boys never got on any trip.

Similar thing happened to my 'niece' - my sister's civil partner's daughter - in first year of secondary school last year. Not all the overnight accommodation was actually available for children and chaperones for the weekend stay. A number dropped out voluntarily but 5 pupils and a chaperone weren't able to go despite wanting to. Niece did go & I don't know how it was all worked out in out in the end?
Only issue was getting refund from the venue, which dragged heels over the partially refund 🙄

Same at my children’s school. Not a huge deal. Sometimes you win (and you do if you have the best points) and sometimes not so much…

This is shocking.

In our school you have to offer it out to a whole cohort, and plan like every single one will take up a space. This meant on the most recent trip I planned (residential, to London) I had to plan based on every single one of the upcoming Higher English and AH English cohort taking up a place. I wouldn't have been allowed to plan it based on taking 30, and drawing names. Everyone gets the opportunity to come. In the end I'm taking 60, but could have hypothetically had nearly 100 of they'd all said yes.

Yes, they should split the trip over 2 days so all DC who wanted to go could. The teachers could have given engaging lessons to children the other day.

300 kids are they’re only planning one day trip? That’s terrible planning. Surely the other kids can go elsewhere or somewhere on a different day?

any school I know of arrange a few places on the same day. The kids pick their top two or three (I think some schools also ask kids to name a friend or two they’d like to be with?) then everyone is allocated a trip.

Our schools used to do it differently so year 10 always did work experience placements and enrichment week would be years 7,8 and 9 and split into different activities abroad and UK,which always gave everyone a chance to do what they wanted

That isn’t unusual for secondary schools.

Can I just check this isn't a typo? Are you saying there are 1,700 pupils in one year? Is that normal in the UK? How many in the whole school, it must be the size of a small town in Ireland! Or do you mean 170? That would still be big here

No it must be 170.

Ok now I see I completely miss read this!! Sorry. I'm not even drinking 🤣

That is pretty awful.

When I was at school there were trips that were restricted in number - but there was enough options of different trips to cover everyone. So as long as you wanted to go, you'd get something (even if it wasn't your first choice) - we could all accept that.

But to make it random and give some people nothing, is just terrible organization .

My daughter’s school did this, it was the first time I ever emailed the school complaining. I bought her a ticket for the same theme park and was prepared to drop her there but apparently loads of other parents complained too as they put on another coach so everyone could go.

I remember at primary school they drew lots for an outing and I didn’t get chosen, I was gutted (I’m in my 50s now and still remember). I Wolfins say it scarred me for life but we always remember the upsetting times. I went to a tiny primary too - about 160 pupils in the whole school.

i think the lots thing is common, but it’s not particularly fair (or it’s a sign up with first come, first served). The

This happened in DD2's school. It was when trips were happening again after Covid and so confusing. It only served to entrench her lack of attendance. What kept me going at school was a balance of fun stuff with things that you had to do. There was never a balance in this school. It's so thoroughly mean and counterproductive.

They did make it clear it was purely expression of interest and that names would be selected at random, did you not pass this on to your DS at all to mitigate his disappointment if not selected? Given it’s an attraction close to home, can you take him at the weekend perhaps? I know it might not be the same as going with school friends but at least he’ll experience it.

It’s a huge school so guessing they only had capacity to take so many which makes sense. Not many attractions can take an influx of 300 kids plus teachers at one point plus the school would have to hire 6-8 coaches which may not be easy to source.

At my kids school, residential trips (like to France or PGL or whatever) usually have fixed numbers and if it's over subscribed they pull names out of a hat. DS's school has an abroad trip happening next year, but they were told there were 20 spaces and 90 applicants, so they pulled them out of a hat, which I think is ok.

However for end of year trips they have maybe 4 options, plus an in-school fun activity for the kids who don't want to go/whose parents maybe can't afford the other activities and the kids write down their preferred option, plus a back up.

But they all get to go somewhere, even if it's not their 1st choice.