To think that there should be some consequences for Judge Nicholas Rowland

[BerryTwister]

I’ve just read that the boys who raped and filmed 2 girls have had their non custodial sentences changed to custodial ones. Judge Nicholas Rowland had originally let them off with non custodial sentences, but there was a public outcry and the Attorney General got involved. In court today it was stated that he had made a mistake, and the boys were remanded in custody.

I can’t find any information about what happens to Nicholas Rowland. Maybe nothing. But I really think there should be some consequence. Maybe some retraining, or perhaps not being allowed to try cases involving sexual violence against women and girls for a while.

In any other job, if you made such an error of judgement, you wouldn't just be allowed to carry on as you were.

Thanks @HoppityBun can you explain what that might look like? I'd like to understand this.

Hi @KateSixercan you please explain the nuance? I would like to understand and am open to hearing the explanation for this.

If you are interested I'd suggest that you read the whole of Court of Appeal judgment. It's a sordid story from every perspective.

I don't have an opinion on the original or subsequent sentence. The factual background is grim however you look at it.

But if you read the full judgment there's more context on both the original sentencing decision and the revised one and while the original decision has been overturned posters who unthinkingly criticise the first judge are doing so on an uninformed basis.

I think that one of the main issues we have is that rape is not seen as a particularly serious crime in this country, especially by men. I imagine they see it through a lens of it only being like having sex when you didn’t really want to rather than it being the serious and violent crime that it is. Look at how many rapists are having their sentences cut short due to overcrowding. Rape just isn’t taken seriously by men.

I wonder if some other cases he heard should be reviewed?

No doubt this is the attitude, but the girls who have to live with this for the rest of their lives are also “children”. Should society prioritise the teenage rapist or the teenage rape victim/other girls who may be raped and filmed if these thugs are left in society to carry on?

@KateSixer I agree with you completely.
People don’t seem to understand how complex and difficult cases like this are and just believe the simplistic details given in the media.

We’re all here trying to work it out. Explain to us why the case is so complex please.

Read the whole judgement. A prior poster posted the link.

I am not going to try to summarise the judgement because I'd probably be accused of being selective. But it is a horrible story with complexity affecting every aspect.

This, it does seem that many prioritise the rapists, what have we seen here alone
-oh but their background
-oh but they don’t really understand consent
-oh but they may meet bad people if they go into custody
-oh but they’re so young
-oh but this may affect their employment prospects.

all about the rapists and how it’s not fair for them to face consequences

Not really this. Did you read his comments about the offenders?

Is it due to the guidelines though if they’re saying it’s the judge who made a mistake?

For all those telling readers to go and read the judgment, I would urge caution.

Extremely graphic descriptions of child sex abuse and rape.

It's very upsetting.

100% agree
We are going backwards at an alarming rate in respect of how women are being treated - its scary.

Well yes, especially if courts and people who work in this environment have the belief that there seems to be acceptable reasons for rape and violence.
it reads as “oh they don’t know any better so therefore best keep them in the community, it’s not fair for them”
so if they don’t know it’s wrong, don’t face consequences, its not their fault.. am assuming we’ve not to be surprised when they rape again?

Those poor girls. I hope they have all the support and help they need.

I have just read the judgment. There is no 'nuance' or other implication that this was not rape.

The so-called mitigations remain the same as they were previously - that the boys were of low intelligence and a 'possible' ADHD diagnosis.

Thank you @WrongKindOfFeminist, if posters are using that as the “nuance” are they also then saying there is high risk of this happening again then?

We need judges, lots are retiring and this is partly why cout cases are taking so long.

Also if you apply this rule to a judge do you apply the same rule to social workers who make mistakes where babies and children are murdered?

This judge must be within spitting distance of retirement, he went to the bar in 1988. The best thing would be for him to just go now.

It's not clear what the previous posters meant by 'nuance'.

@KateSixerok I've read it. I would encourage others to too. I think (I may be wrong?) the "Nuance" and "complications" people are referring to are this; the girls were initially consenting. That's it. They were not dragged off the street at knife point by strangers. That's it. The description reads like rape but I think some people think only violent stranger rape counts. I really don't agree that neurodiversity and ADHD and low IQ should be mitigating factors either. People need to be protected from these kinds of people regardless of their conditions and mental health and SEN diagnoses.

If someone can explain to me why I'm wrong I'm open to hearing it.

I totally agree with you OP.
What a misogynist. .

There is no 'nuance' or other implication that this was not rape.

Impossible to say but it looked to me like the subtext in the bit about despite the airpods/mobile phone and the mistake over the knife "the jury believed".

But TBH, the verdict is ancient history, nobody is questioning the verdict. The bit under debate is the sentence. They will serve 2 years which would be bat shit for two rapes of strangers at knife point in an underpass with an element of kidnapping about it. In fact it wasn't that and 2 years is starting to appear a lot less mental.