AIBU to think university executives should not be paid so much that the uni can't afford lecturers

[melisande]

AIBU to expect that the uni my DS might go to should not pay their execs so much that they can't afford to pay lecturers and profs and are making them redundant: News story on cuts at Exeter; same thing happening at Hertfordshire and Sussex. Exeter UCU says that if the 16 highest paid execs at that uni capped their salary at £120k, they'd save more money than all the planned cuts to archaeology and history.

Huddersfiled is not alone. Some top tier unis rely on temp staff. DS was taught by in his opinion, the cleverest man he'd ever met, at Oxford. This man had three part time jobs at three different unis and couldn't progress because he couldn't afford to take time off to finish his PhD.

And of course part-timers don't get office hours. But are still expected to reply to student emails, departmental emails, attend meetings, answer student questions after class. It all adds up to hours and hours of unpaid work.

Anyone who thinks academics get long holidays needs to see the MSc teaching schedule. Students arrive in September and teaching runs to April, then intensive project supervision to August and then project marking in August before the next batch show up in September. It is relentless.

VC salaries are high but cutting them would only buy you one extra lecturer. It is not an easy fix. Educating students well costs money and the tuition fees dont cover it.

there is a demographic dip coming (less 5 year olds in the uk now) so over the coming years, this is going to get much worse with less 18 year olds going to uni and less fees.

Education is a huge export for the UK and it's crumbling. Chinese universities are catching up and the government have allowed the UK sector to be decimated. We will regret it

Also getting rid of degrees based on whims and trends is a huge mistake. When the wind changes and people want world class humanities departments they won't be coming to the UK because they are all gone.

Sorry - I didn't mean to criticise Philosophy lecturers - it was a lazy dig. Its just the point that universities are businesses and big complex ones at that. Its often assumed that academics are the lynch pins of universities because they do the teaching and research and professional service staff roles are constantly side lined as just the admin. But usually they are the ones making everything work. This post is seeming to suggest that exec roles should be paid less so academics can keep their jobs even if its not financially viable. My original point is that exec postholders are often academics but more so let's not assume that poor salaries for management and admin roles in the sector should be expected.

I agree OP that VCs are paid too much. I know it's a big responsibility and they deserve to be rewarded fairly, but the absolute chasm between a senior lecturer salary and the VC is totally unjustified.

Days of automatic promotion are long gone. I know people with 5plus years experience with a Masters, pg cert, module lead, other school responsibilities and still can’t get SL. I know a program lead who isn’t an SL!

it’s not 54 days holiday either I don’t think. I certainly don’t get that many.

Anyone who thinks academics get long holidays needs to see the MSc teaching schedule. Students arrive in September and teaching runs to April, then intensive project supervision to August and then project marking in August before the next batch show up in September. It is relentless.

Try being a healthcare lecturer. Students are in from mid Sept to end of July. With teaching up to the end of July. Then all through August there are students making missed placement hours up.

Universities are large scale business. They need to be run by people with appropriate skill sets and experience.

As someone in the private sector it actually blows my minds that people are willing to
do that sort of work for £300k.

Posters are commenting on how we can expect a midwife or paramedic to lecture when they could earn more in industry, but how much do you think a VC could earn as CEO of a private company?

cutting exec salaries is not the way forward, investing in education and a revision of the idea that everyone can go is the way forward

Oh agreed. I was using Hud as an example as I worked closely with some top class academics there and seeing them lose their jobs was gut wrenching. You’re right, this issue is systemic. I feel lucky to work in a cushioned uni (for now).

Also agree with PP regarding top class humanities courses. Again, will go back to Huddersfield but their linguistics and English departments were world leading. Now linguistics doesn’t exist and English has 2 lecturers- a 19th century expert and postmodernist. They ditched their only remaining Shakespeare professor. It’s gut wrenching to witness but there you go.

Stefan Collini’s work on this is brilliant, his recent LBR piece was phenomenal.

Many of the VC’s have no prior business experience at all, some were academics themselves. A lot of them have also never been in the city before in their lives so don’t understand the landscape whatsoever. They walk in with grandiose ideas that inevitably fail because they have no grasp of the local student body.

This. I don’t think many/any of them are in danger of getting a job as a CEO in industry 🤷‍♀️

I teach in a sixth form college, and my DP used to teach undergraduates in Canada. When he first came here he would tell me I should be teaching at university, I would earn more, it'd be a better job - only after a few years does he understand that on the top of the pay scale I get paid more than a uni lecturer, I get more holidays and better terms and conditions! Plus I don't need a PhD. He was thinking about his well-funded, swish university in Canada which had loads of money and amazing facilities...

The issue really got worse when the cap on student numbers was lifted and many universities over extended. Why does a university like Huddersfield even consider running an English degree? What for? Plenty of other universities have this degree and have done for decades.

With over expansion came costs. Now student numbers are reducing, from home and abroad, there are financial issues. Cutting a few top brass salaries won’t help. Reducing expenditure and courses will help temporarily but the whole sector needs recalibration.

37% of school leavers go to university because the offerings below degree level are not appealing. They used to be and they were employment based courses. The former polys and colleges of HE ran work related courses and we need to revert to this.

One of my DDs did a MFL degree and the other a fashion degree. One is now a high earner and both are self employed. Im certain DC cannot all do stem degrees but we don’t need 100 universities offering English degrees. We need high quality and fewer bums on seats courses.

Because once upon a time, like maybe 5 years ago even, they had a world class English course with a phenomenal selection of academics (honestly a couple were among the best nationally). When student numbers started to decline, in part thanks to student cap, their first choice was to start axing those lecturers. Now they have 2 remaining. 2 bloody good academics but only 2. It’s incredibly sad to watch what it once was decline as it has.

Also students at Huddersfield tend to be local, from impoverished backgrounds in Kirklees, a lot of first gen students, mature students etc. They study there for all kinds of reasons. Do you think those students don’t deserve humanities courses or something?

£120k is a pretty low salary for someone so senior. It’s hardly crazy money.

VC’s earn at least twice this, some 3
or even 4x as much.

English degrees aren’t really an issue… English graduates are hired across the board from law to journalism to accounting and marketing. It’s a really versatile degree especially in today’s world where half of the STEM grads don’t seem able to write a functioning email.

In that case universities would be better off bringing someone in with a strong commercial background, paying them 4x what they pay their non-commercial VCs and treating running a university like the business it is

Maybe but some of them do exceptionally well despite not coming from a commercial background e.g Malcolm Press at Manchester Met- what a fantastic VC. It does need someone with strong knowledge of and experience within academia too.

Hahaha love the understatement of this (as someone who's seen several VCs and execs come and go!)

What do the humanities do for the rest of us unlike STEM studies?

If you are really interested, this is a good explanation. Stefan Collini is a recognised authority on the subject of universities and higher education systems. His earlier book, "What Are Universities For?" is excellent.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v48/n10/stefan-collini/squadrons-of-pigs

Or you can keep taking pointless pot shots at "management".

Do you ever read a book, watch a tv show, attend the theatre, visit a museum or gallery, consume news in any form…? All industries with heavy input from the humanities. And that’s just off the top of my head.

Totally agree that professional staff should be properly remunerated and do also understand that being a VC is demanding and stressful - the issue is that highlighted by other posters - the growing disparity with lecturers and other prof staff and the detachment of VCs from the university community and the purposes of university education (partic in non-STEM subjects), and the failure of VCs to lobby effectively for better funding in order to protect staff and students

I get 54, at least I think so. 35 statutory, 10 days closure at Xmas, then bank holidays and usually the day after. Whatever that comes to.