To think an annual property tax is incredibly unfair?

[Itchthescratch]

I come from an area with low house prices. It is great! My friends can generally afford houses even with lower salaries as the earnings:house prices ratio is better. Rents are also lower so they have proportionately more disposable income.

I have moved to a more expensive area where house prices are higher and people have really had to push themselves to buy a property. Salaries are higher but not high enough to make up the difference. They have had to pay more stamp duty , pay more interest and have less disposable income each month.

I am really struggling to understand why my friends in the South should also automatically be paying more property tax under the new proposals being suggested by Burnham supporters? What is the justification? They would love to buy a large detached house for £300k like my friends from home but this isn't possible. It feels like they are being double penalised.

Just to add house prices haven't risen in real terms in the area in live in now for 20 years so the value of my friend's houses is simply money they have paid in.

I don’t really remember the poll tax s as I was a child, but if it was to pay for services used, then the more people who live in a home, the higher the bill should be? More rubbish, more facilities usage, etc.

i live in an area where there are numerous multi generational homes - some large houses have 7-10 adults living in them. They use more facilities than a home with 4 people, for example. They should pay more, I guess.

but I am aware that I don’t fully understand it, so could be wrong, or (unintentionally) ignorant.

if you buy your home, pay the mortgage for years and finally pay it off, you shouldn’t be taxed on the land! Higher earners may buy larger homes, but by being a higher earner, they have been taxed more.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong poster! My post was not directed at yours!

Of course income tax doesn’t prevent me earning. It’s a fair tax. We all pay it. Stamp duty is only paid by people who move. So people don’t move.

If I moved house within 2 years of paying £43,350 in stamp duty it would work out as £1,800 a month in stamp duty I’d have paid. If I stay 4 years it would be £900. 8 years at £450 a month is still more than I pay in council tax. I’d have to live there 11 years for my stamp duty bill to be less than my council tax bill. So I won’t move. Ever. And that’s really bad for the economy. Neither my husband nor I will look for other work outwith the area. We’re unlikely to ever downsize, even when the kids have left home. Why would we? We might want to move to a more suitable property later on in life but it really doesn’t make financial sense, especially when so few homes are available.

So we’ll sit in our big expensive home for years longer than we would otherwise choose to. That’s the damage of stamp duty. Tax any transaction and you get fewer of them. Tax housing transactions and people move much less, and fewer people live in a property that is right for them and their lives. Stamp duty is a travesty.

The Scottish greens propose doubling Scottish stamp duty so it would be 4 x as much as English, which tells you all you need to know about the IQ of the members of the Scottish Green Party.

My MIL who lives on basic state pension pays same as her neighbours who have 4 working adults in their house, including 1 Dr and 1 pharmacist. How is that fair? Taxes are supossed to be based on income. And yes, people would say she can move, but it's a small 3 bed, and 2 bed bungalows are same price.

It should be done away with altogether, and a bit more put on income tax and ringfenced for services local to the person paying

I think it’s a great idea, I’m in the SE (just) and my council tax is much higher than someone living in equivalent home in London and probably higher than lots of much, much more expensive houses. Plus stamp duty is just awful, to find that money on top of all the other moving expenses, it’s a huge disincentive to move, which can’t be good for the economy or housing market.

How it’s phased in will be key as there’s lots of older people who are in housing worth many, many times more than they paid. I imagine that as they have so much political weight they’ll be looked after.

Our council tax is substantially more than 0.48% of the alleged value of the property. All the highest areas of council tax are outside London, many of them some of the most deprived areas of the country. All but one of the lowest areas are in London and they’re all extremely wealthy.

https://moneyweek.com/personal-finance/council-tax-burden-highest-lowest-uk

Even before he is in no.10 he trying to divide the country. I think it is totally unfair , & l love in the north.

Taxes are not ‘supposed to be based on income’. Taxes are based on lots of things. Income, wealth, assets, what you buy, how environmentally friendly you are etc etc. we tax too much from income and not enough from assets and other wealth. The balance of tax take needs to start moving away from income.

Loving in the north is highly recommended. I’ve had the time of my life in North Yorkshire.

Then treat home ownership like other assets and tax it when the home is sold, not every year simply because someone continues to live in it.

But then you’re still taxing transactions. So people won’t move. I live in a street of big houses, most of which are occupied by 1 or 2 elderly people because young people cannot afford to buy here. They’ve all been here 15+ years apart from one set of retirees who bought 6 years ago (who retires to a 5 bed house???). The government got stamp duty from us as we are young-ish and needed the space so moved. The government got no property tax other than council tax from the rest of the street despite them being wealthy (that was what defined benefits pensions did) and living in huge houses. You don’t think it would have been fair to up the annual property tax for everyone and not just one couple who did something so terrible - moved house?

Property prices have changed hugely, property wealth is also not liquid capital so not moving round benefiting the economy.

I wish there was a better way than taxation to try and redustribute wealth but nobody has come up with one. Every tax and spend decision has winners and losers, sorry OP just because you may be a loser in this instance doesn't necessarily make it unfair. If you think it's unfair write to your MP don't bitch and act all entitled about it on social media.

You reform council tax by taking adult social care out of it and funding thst through general taxation like pensions are. Everyone pays in their share and grts help they need when they need it. That way a town where there is high percentage of elderly people is having the majority of its funding spent on care.

Then council only need money for other common services we need like bins, police, fire, education.

Then you make council tax per adult per household. So if there are 5 adults they all pay the same amount. So the poll tax essentially.

Start with that. We all know adult social care is a ticking time bomb noone is addressing it.

So this is instead of council tax ? Not heard of this

If so id be saving £80 a month

Seems like majoirty of people will be winners ergo paying less not enough paying more to make up the difference so how does that balance the books if council tax is scrapped. There will be less money then what they get now and if services are already crap well what will happen when there is even less money....

The majority of people are ‘winners’ when it comes to the overall tax take too, with people not being net contributors until they earn well over the average wage. And that’s because income tax is paid mainly by those who earn masses. In the same way that the majority can pay less because larger houses are being hammered much more.

@Bellic
The majority of people are ‘winners’ when it comes to the overall tax take too, with people not being net contributors until they earn well over the average wage. And that’s because income tax is paid mainly by those who earn masses
What about people who do tough jobs for not very much money? They may not be paying much tax but they keep the wheels turning and that means they contribute to society.
Wealth is created collectively.

the real question should be why are 2nd and subsequent houses, corporation owned or air bnbs/business-residentials not charged double council tax as they should be, would fix the issue as you would tax the rich only.

And second houses are an asset as they are an investment. Your home you live in isnt an asset its your home we all need one. Anything more should then be treated as wealthy assets.

Are you really saying that, going forward, the main purpose of owning a home is to generate more tax for the Government rather than provide people with long-term security? Why is it always about tax? At what point do we start talking about the Government's role in delivering or creating the conditions for growth instead of finding new ways to tax people?

I get that you resent that you had to pay stamp duty. I don't agree with your solution: to have more people living on your street who can afford today's prices and, by default, a higher annual property tax? If the collateral damage of displacing elderly owners, especially those with generous DB schemes, is workers on more ordinary salaries being forced into debt to stay or to into selling, then so be it? really? They may have moved there before people like you gentrified it, but tough.

The housing shortage hasn't gone away. We still haven't built enough of the right homes in the right places. So what is your solution? Because taxing people to encourage them to move doesn't solve that problem. It simply shifts the pressure elsewhere in the market and distorts it. But serves them right, because, "Who retires to a 5 bed house???"

So it's not about fairness. It's about legitimacy based on who can afford to pay the highest ongoing annual property tax to the Government. The more tax you can afford, the more deserving you are.

i would have pay £12k Pa. I bought a derelict house 15 yrs ago and did it up. I’m very lucky house values have gone up but I can’t liquidate that wealth until I sell and I work in the public sector and there’s absolutely no way I could afford £12k a year in council tax as I don’t earn enough. Taxes should be applicable at point of sale of property or on income. Have a higher rate for higher earners who are earning that wealth. I don’t have the cash to pay more until I move. Taxing assets sounds easy and makes a good story but to me it’s not fair unless it’s at point of sale

And if you sell up your expensive house and move to a cheaper area using your spending power to outbid locals , is that fair?
If you don't want London prices, dont live in London.

Long overdue, very sensible policy, and much fairer than what we currently have. There's a reason it has cross-party backing.

I read we have a £15b Blackmore to plug and Andy isn't ruling oit putting up incomr tax. There is always a black hole ffs why, how? You think 0.48% will be forever dream on it will go up to continue to plug in these so called blackheads thay keep appearing. So be happy now but if this happens don't come back complaining when you find you can't afford it anymore and have to sell up