TRIGGER WARNING. infant loss. Electric forest festival

[JustGiveMeTheNoodles]

Im reading comments on a Facebook news article about this situation and have ended up in a bit of a spar.

AIBU for thinking this may not be as clear cut as someone abandoning a baby to die in a portaloo?

Yes its awful, and no, baby should not have been left there. All im asking is people consider other possibilities. Mum could have been a child herself, or suffering with poor mental health. Baby could have been stillborn. It doesn't make it right, I just feel some people have no empathy and are so narrow minded. I hope the mum is ok.

It might not, but people will have visceral reactions that whatever case, a newborn was abandoned.

Yes I do understand that. I just find it crazy that people cant consider all possibilities and not have a shred of empathy.

I want to make it clear that this is awful and I dont condone it in any way

I also read the comments on this article and lost a scrap more of the already tiny amount of faith I have in humanity. We don't know the circumstances of this and I think you're right that the mother most likely either acted out of sheer panic or is really suffering with her MH. She really needs looking after but is unlikely to come forward given the public response.

I agree, but these case can also be cruel abandonment. I used to feel that no women would ever do this with resources available but that is no t true. Female sociopaths do unthinkable things to their children including this.

The Foundling podcast is chilling and goes into the complex and traumatic responses of babies abandoned in this way and found alive.

I think it’s also worth noting that abortion is illegal in several of the surrounding states to where the festival took place as another possibility as to what led to such a sad outcome in this case.

Newborn abandonment cases tend to rarely be clear cut. Not that I condone it in the slightest. But cryptic pregnancies, teen pregnancy, religion, abuse, mental health or addiction issues all tend to come to my mind before someone just being evil does - but I acknowledge that some people just are, and that that could just be the case.

Some context.

Arguing with people on Facebook is never about convincing the other person that they are wrong, that's never going to happen. Treat it as an opportunity to put your view point across to people reading all the comments and don't get drawn into any sparring. Just calmly putting an opposing point of view is useful.

That makes sense, states that are so misogynistic as to be against abortion are going to be misogynistic in their general judgement of women as well and especially where kids are involved. Horrible place. Dont suppose she’ll ever see this but I hope she’s ok too.

I think the most likely thing is a woman left her baby to die. All of those other listed cases are rare.

What do you base that opinion on?

After some research, the only state with abortion restrictions near Michigan is Indiana, I believe. All of the other states either allow it to 21 weeks or allow it with no gestational limits. They also apparently allow people from Indiana to receive abortions in their states.

I suspect it was a young person that didn’t know she was pregnant or was in denial that she was pregnant and panicked. Sadly not uncommon, and always tragic.

I have no sympathy for a grown woman abandoning a newborn to die. I genuinely, hand on heart, believe she deserves no sympathy whatsoever IF that is what happened.

There is this narrative that mumsnet seems to be convinced of that women are all selfless and vulnerable and can do no wrong. That's not my experience. There are plenty of shitty women and mothers out there. And abuse, addiction or mental health issues are no excuse for murder (unless she is so sick, she doesn't even realise what she is doing, which is rare).

Murder?

What other cases? Listed where?

Things like her not knowing, it being a stillborn.

Given that absolutely no one at the moment knows how this baby died or anything of the circumstances other than where it was found and that it is considered by the police to be a “neonate” which apparently means 4 weeks or less in age, I think deciding that it’s a deliberate act of murder is unfounded.

I don't think it's hard to have compassion for the Mother in this situation.

I would rather offer her sympathy and support and have her come forward and get the help she needs, than demonise her and make her scared to come forward and get help.

If it turns out she is 'evil' then nobody has lost anything by having sympathy and losing it.

So how do you know it's more likely to be abandonment of a live baby than a stillborn?