To make a PALS complaint?

[everythingihave]

A year ago (to the day!) I was running when I took a step, felt a pop in my knee and immediate agony.

I went to an UTC who x-rayed it and said there was no bone damage. After a lot of back and forth with the doctors on call they said that there was nothing they could do, A&E at the “big” hospital wouldn’t accept me and it didn’t warrant an orthopaedic referral because it was probably just overuse.

I went back to my GP when it hadn’t improved in a month, I was told to self refer to physio.

I did that at the end of July last year. I had a video appointment in January, a face to face appointment in February, and was then referred to a specialist hip and knee physiotherapist. I have been waiting for that appointment since February. My referral was accepted on 28/02.

Every month, without fail, I get an appointment booked that is then cancelled because the “consultant isn’t available”. I have been told I will need an MRI, but that they will first do x-rays to determine if it’s arthritis.

It’s now the fourth instance of my appointment being cancelled. It hasn’t been rebooked for July yet, but I’ve gone private because I can’t wait any longer. I’ve bypassed the specialist, booked an MRI, and will go from there.

Would it be reasonable to complain in this situation?

I’m so sorry. That’s awful. They just get away with so much

I had a very similar experience. I had a knee injury and went through the NHS system. The pathway to diagnose and get MRI is very long one. I decided to book private MRI and found out my ACL was completely ruptured and I had meniscus tear as well

What’s baffling to me is that prompt treatment costs less than walking around with damage for a year and then needed surgery!

Fagash Nigel gonna sort it? Isn’t he? Isn’t he??? He probably isn’t!

You are absolutely right. It would be much more cost effective to get MRI done first. It can get longer than a year to get diagnosis through NHS and see physio and have x rays done. In a meanwhile you are actually causing more damage to your knee. Absolutely ridiculous that you have to jump through all these hoops just to find out what is wrong with your knee. I got really frustrated with it all

I think the most insulting part is that then, all of this waiting is classed as “treatment” because you’re doing physio exercises in the meantime. So you then wait an extra year for surgery

I am definitely not a Farage supporter!

But anyone who thinks the NHS is not chronically inefficient and needs significant reform either doesn't use it or is delusional.

When will people wake up and realise that around the developed world in Europe and in Asia (not the US) far better and more efficient systems have developed that still offer universal care.

Read the stories about the abysmal maternity care in Nottingham and tell me you still think the NHS is fit for purpose.

The whole thing is a massive Gordian knot and needs cutting. How can the current status quo be defended by you?

I think emergency and cancer care is definitely very good.

But in terms of literally everything else, it falls very short. I don’t see how, in any world, making people walk around for a year on an injury that is getting worse, saves more money

Do it op. I’ve complained several times, one for shocking maternity care during lockdown.

i’ve had to pay for lots of private treatment for my young kids because the nhs has been mostly useless, this includes private physio for my DC when he was 1, to help him to learn to walk.

Will Andy Burnham act or will he just genuflect to the socialist origin of the NHS and the millions who work in it without considering that it is not fit for purpose and better model (not the US) exist elsewhere in the world.

This isn’t the thread for this discussion, thank you.

The fact we have to pay just to get what we should be getting is nuts to me.

Point taken and to answer your own original question then yes, complain.

But your experiences are not unique and are symptomatic of a much more systemic problem so I don't think it's unreasonable to consider your original post in this wider context.

I do understand it within the wider context, but to be perfectly honest with you I am not in the place or the mood to have that discussion right now

Yes that’s exactly how it is. I’m three weeks post ACL reconstruction and if I waited for NHS, I would be still waiting for MRI let alone a surgery

It’s crazy. How is sitting around with some generic “strengthening” exercises treatment?! I hope your recovery goes well x

Consultant probably left but they haven't replaced them yet...they wait ages to reappoint to save money...and there may not be anyone applying but they keep adding to the list...I'm not sure how it all works but having worked for 37 years in the NHS many departments ' organisational skills are shameful.

In terms of useful outcomes you could ask for

• a trigger in the system that when a consultant appointment is cancelled for the third time, they look at it and put on an emergency clinic or similar

• better training in communications about all this, eg for the doctors who wouldn't give you an orthopedic referral

Complain. Otherwise it goes unnoticed. And harm is being done even if you're not dead.

It's the way they manipulate the statistics to make it look as if waiting lists are getting shorter.

They did it under Blair's Labour too. My FIL waited over a year for an "urgent" cancer operation that should have been done within (I think, 16 week target in those days), but it was just one sodding fiasco after another, being moved between hospitals to "restart the clock", being moved to a different consultant to "restart the clock", etc. It was so obvious that it was around the 14-15 week point in one hospital/under one consultant that he was suddenly and inexplicably moved to a different ward/hospital, without even giving us notice!

Happened to me too, after going to A&E a couple of times, literally nothing happening for 3 hours and then a sudden rush to have x-rays, blood tests, ECG, etc., with almost indecent haste and then surprise "discharge" back to GP at literally 3 hours 55 minutes with no answers/treatments. They had screens in the nurses/doctors stations colour coded with patient numbers going red when the time was running out.

It's no way to run a health service when the doctors and nurses are obsessing about timescales and fiddling the time statistics instead of actually treating the patients.

Cancer care isn't universally good. DH has had cancer for 9 years now and at times his treatment has been shambolic. He's made a couple of complaints via PALS which took a long time to be acted upon but did make a difference in the long term. Even with cancer patients, they're more than capable of cocking things up, i.e. forgetting to make promised referrals to other specialists, forgetting to make referrals for x-rays, MRI/CT scans etc. Getting the sequence of monthly appointments wrong, despite the sequence/timing being the same very 4 weeks for the last 9 years - still sometimes get the blood test appointment after the treatment start date which makes no sense at all! Even them not organising his chemo drugs to be ready to collect on the day the monthly treatment cycle should start. The organisation/administration is utterly shambolic.

I think each trust is different. Our cancer and emergency is good, everything else is lagging behind.

MRI rationing is ridiculous and it’s bloody obvious to a 5 year old that there aren’t enough scanners. Those that we do have should be working 24/7 as they would in the private sector to avoid situations like OP’s.

I knackered my back and was left on a spinal board in a corridor for hours, worrying about cauda equina. The A&E consultant I eventually saw told me that “the gold standard” for my symptoms would be a MRI scan. I said “is that what I’ll be having then?” and he looked really surprised that I’d asked. The upshot was, he refused the MRI until he found out that DH is a NHS consultant in another hospital in the Trust, at which point I was rushed to the vacant scanner within (literally) 10 minutes. The entire shitshow is rotten to the core and needs consigning to the dustbin of history.

So yes, do complain.

It doesn’t make sense. It took 10 minutes, I had it done at the same facility as the NHS scans are done, I just paid privately

I’ve emailed the complaint. I feel really silly for doing so, but it’s not acceptable

Get a grip! It’s not like the only standard we expect from our health service is “well it didn’t kill me”. Multiple cancellations for something that could be important is not good enough.