AIBU to think overseas ballet intensives are too much for children and teens?

[Mykolo]

Hi all, so my DD is 10, she’s very into and good at ballet and we are looking at various vocational training options going forward.
A colleague of my husband works with a mother who’s daughter was a professional ballet dancer at a very well respected opera house in Europe, the mother put us in touch with this woman incase she has any useful advice.

Now her child did a different system they lived in France at the time so she did a conservatoire/regular school combination.

What surprised me was she told me that from age 10 her daughter was as going abroad for summer intensives sometimes 2 or 3 weeks in countries like Austria, The Netherlands and in her later teens (which would have been before the war and Covid) Russia.

This seems absurd to me? She said from
about age 11/12 she would just fly as an unaccompanied minor and be met by the school on the other side or they would put her on a train for the same to happen on the other side.

I really don’t feel comfortable with this, certainly willing to look at uk residential courses, but DD has said she doesn’t want to be away from home for too long.

AIBU to think this is ridiculous? Having looked at the same courses they don’t even offer an option where the whole family books a hotel and we take DD each day, surely there has to be a better system than 10/11/12 year olds being away from home for so long? And bloody reckless of parents who were letting their children fly all over Europe alone including to Russia at 16?! (Even if this was before the war!)

I’m not disagreeing that the default is residential, but the mother I spoke to has a daughter who has been in the corps de ballet at both Vienna State and La Scala in Milan, her daughter didn’t leave home, she did a double course through the French conservatoire system, with normal school in the morning and conservatoire in the afternoon. There are other options.

There are safeguarding concerns. Who would be looking after them when they are away?

Also this is why ballet and gymnastics has a fucking awful reputation for abuse of young people, because they are away from their parents. The OP is right to be concerned when someone else is in loco parentis.

There's no need to go abroad for summer intensives. There are enough high quality intensives in the UK for your DD to spend every day of the 6 week summer holiday at a UK intensive.

But also the first concern should be your child's wellbeing, not whether they ultimately succeed in a sport.

It’s fine to do what’s right for your own child (my child wouldn’t have coped with this a few years ago either), but your question was if it was ‘bloody reckless and absurd’ for a 16 year old to fly around Europe without a parent. And no, it’s not. It might not work for you but it’s not absurd or unusual for highly gifted and motivated children.

And yes there are other routes - there are stories of teenagers being discovered in all sorts of ways. But to have the best chance, this is the life. So if the tradeoff isn’t worth it to you, that’s totally fine, but there’s no reason to say other families are being ‘reckless’ if it’s worth it to them.

The people who become world-class at sport, dance, classical music etc were the kids who did "too much". They made sacrifices, boarded from a young age, went overseas for training, were separated from families, trained for hours a day on top of their normal education, missed out on a lot of what makes a "normal" childhood. And they didn't have to be forced - they had the drive and motivation and committment themselves. They worked like adults - harder than a lot of adults - from when they were children.

Some things, if you want to do them, take sacrifice and suffering. You can't do and have everything. You can't have a normal childhood and a professional ballet career. DD will decide for herself what she wants - support her.

National youth orchestra courses are up to 12 days, many children traveling independently to them. They place huge emphasis on wellbeing and safeguarding, I would hope ballet courses would too. I think giving your child the confidence to gradually build independence is the best preparation for adult life. I certainly wouldn't see it absurd to travel abroad at 16, loads do it for holidays and are not going to be met at the other end etc. I hope you find a balance of comfort and challenge that works for your family.

If a child is talented in ballet, then a lot of technique is learnt & developed from the ages of around 11 to 16, while the body is still really plastic. If a chikd has real potential, it's important they get the best teaching available, and learn to learn in a variety of environments.

Growing up in the theatre is excellent for children. They learn about discipline & hard work; they develop good working relationships with other talented peers and also expert adults. Relationships with one's ballet teachers can be for life.

So you might not like the idea, but for many young dancers in pre-professional training, these opportunities are hugely enjoyed and anticipated.

Missing the point but aren’t lots of 16 year olds flying around Europe without their parents? I was holidaying with my boyfriend at that age (not horrifyingly long ago) and was doing school trips before that. My nieces and nephews are doing the same now.

I was in a normal working class family and saved money from my Saturday job to afford cheap flights to Europe.

My DS is a young ballet dancer - there are UK options. NYB is amazing. Also look at vocational add ons to regular school like Associate programs if you don’t want her to board.

Two words: 'Educated offsite'.

It's not a holiday, it's training for a career.

@Mykolo There's absolutely no need for British-based young dancers to go overseas for summer schools and non-residential course. Loads available in the UK, although you have long since missed the boat for applications to the big ones this summer. There may well be some more local non-residential ones available depending on whereabouts in the country you are.

Maybe ask on the Doing Dance section of Balletcoforum.com about this, as there are plenty of people on there who could advise re UK training options.

At 10 she needs to live like a child. Going to school, enjoying dance as a hobby, and taking part in summer camp if she wants to but sleeping at home/a short residential in the same country as you.
Homework, family, health, friends, parties, a range of extra curricular activities needs to come before being a prodigy.

So YANBU in shipping her off.

Yes you are right, very different norms.

In Scandinavia it’s expected that a child of 8+ is able to make their own way to school on public transport - unless they live exceptionally far or have additional needs/ are carrying heavy sports or musical equipment around.

In many countries, it’s considered unusual if a child needs significant supervision in daily life beyond age 12, ie they’re expected to manage their own daily schedule, cook own meals sometimes, manage own homework, choose which exams to take and what schools to apply for etc.

As an international student I was very surprised that almost all British children came to uni open days with their parents for example - would have been almost unheard of ‘back home’.

Therefore my comment wondering whether it was really that unusual for kids 10+ to be away from home in hobby camps.

I was used to everyone being away unaccompanied in their teens, including Brits - but suppose that was elite performance. While safeguarding concerns are more prominent now, I know in my former sport everyone still does it and nobody would voluntarily opt out - travel, seeing the world and competing against kids from other countries was the highlight of the year. Everyone did it as much as they could and would qualify for.

Why not do a dance summer scheme here? My DD did several at Tring School - Ceccetti.

My DDs both went to school in South Africa for a term when in y9. It was a school exchange and each went with a friend but unaccompanied. They changed planes in Joburg. DDs also went to Poland, Hong Kong, Italy, Ibiza, France etc as unaccompanied minors to see friends. It would not bother me if the foreign class made suitable arrangements for international students.