Change of class request

[LetsgoEspeon]

My son will be starting p5 next year (we’re in Scotland). He has an ASD diagnosis. He’s very bright and well-behaved. Although the composition of classes changes each year (depending on that year’s given intake), we have been extremely fortunate in that he has been with a core group of friends each year, thus far. These friends have encouraged him to really enjoy school, boosted his confidence and helped him to participate fully in school life.
Here’s the AIBU….we’ve just received his class allocation for next year and while all his friends are in the P5 class, he’s going to be one of only 6 p5 children in a p5/6 composite class. He isn’t friends with any of them and knows very few of the older children that will make up the vast majority of the cohort. Would I be unreasonable to ask the school whether it would be possible for him to be moved to the p5 class? Does anyone have any experience of a similar situation? I should add that there is no issue with his teacher. We would be very happy with any teacher in the school. Thoughts much appreciated, thanks.

OP I work in a school with straight and composite classes based off age but we ALWAYS check friendships and would never leave a child isolated. Unfortunately some schools aren't as flexible 🥲
I hope you get it sorted. Could be worth asking the SENCO to attend the meeting too if you're going to fight it from an social difficulties perspective

I’ve been dealing with numbers for different reasons.

absolutely ask. It will have been done on age. The minimum they can put to composite is 5. The maximum in a composite class is 25. The maximum in a straight class at 5-7 is 33. 25 for 1-4.

so as long as those limits don’t apply then there should be scope for movement. There may also be another child who would prefer to be composite.

I had a similar situation a few years ago, except my DC was one of 6 (3 girls and 3 boys) being composited down. Our primary also sorted classes by age. Headteacher wouldn't budge, but he was a pillock in many ways. My child was moved from a class with an extremely academically able 'top' group who were also all friends. My DC was pretty much in a group of one in their new class. After one year the classes were reorganised again. My DC was definitely working at a lower level than their friends in the single year group class, although they caught up again.

Hopefully, your DS' diagnosis will support your argument for a reasonable adjustment. Our school didn't want a composite group of less than 6 children, claiming that was a reasonable teaching group size. However, the 5 children closest to my DC in age were very different abilities.

It’s fine to ask.
they should have spoken with you about it perhaps given his diagnosis but is it possible it’s also part of a pathway to help him cope with transition to secondary? Is he moving schools after p6? (Don’t know the number systems - is it Scotland?) it’s a huge change and perhaps coping with a smaller change at this point would be a good thing?

do the p5 kids do anything all together? Trips or experience days or social time? If he struggles with change it might be very well intentioned although again they should have explained this thinking and involved you

It’s unusual to just pick the oldest and do it that way-I’ve never organised split classes like that, but I’m not in Scotland.

It’s worth an ask, but if it means someone else’s will have to move class, it probably won’t be agreed.

I'd ask my Ds who has ASD had a disastrous two years because another parent had insisted that her child be paired with him. He hadn't been placed with any of his own friendship circle, who were a fantastic support. The child he was placed with then joined in with whole class bullying of my son. A change of peer group was a huge success and Ds blossomed. He has never really recovered his self esteem though.

@pteromumThese numbers are very helpful and should certainly lend some weight to our argument as I very much doubt that the planned class will contain 33 pupils (I could always be wrong!)

Thanks so much @WombatStewForTea. Sound advice but the school are on their 4th (part-time) SENCO since my son started. We barely know her and she seems to be struggling so not sure she’d be of much help sadly. Off to write down my pre-meeting email. Apologies if I haven’t responded to everyone individually. All replies have been very helpful and much appreciated. I’ll return to the thread to let everyone know how I got on…

If you don’t manage to move him OP, I’ll just tell you of my experience. This happened to me when I was in Y3, I was one of only 6 Y3 kids put into a Y4 class. I was painfully shy and dreading it, but I actually had a really nice time and made some new friends.

That’s very kind of you to share @ClairDeLaLune:)

I’m in Scotland too. Our school doesn’t do this sort of thing by age, they consider ability as well as existing relationships so they can adjust quite a lot. It is always such a difficult call though. I’ll say that most of the time, the children settle far easier than any of the parents thought they would (am on the PTA and volunteer in a few different capacities so hear a lot of gossip!). If it’s purely by age that is a different problem as you’d be asking them to adjust their own policy so worth being mindful of that (it’s definitely far more difficult to split a class based on feelings and friendships instead of a age cutoff which is really simple to explain)

My daughter is autistic and would have really struggled with this so I fully appreciate the issue.

Hi all, once again thanks for your responses. I have a meeting with the headmaster tomorrow. Can anyone please advise me as to how to proceed if it’s a “no”. I’m unsure where I would stand and it would be good to be aware of any possible avenues I could explore….best to come prepared…

This happened to my ASD child. They found it incredibly distressing all year. The distress did not go away. We complained to the council who admitted that children with ASD ought not be moved if they are going to struggle with the upheaval but that was 3 months into the school year so they still refused to move the classes. It’s the point at which my child decided school was rubbish and that teachers didn’t care about pupils.

Complain, complain, complain. Max kids in a composite is 25, max in a straight class is 33. My child missed out on actual learning too. The straight class started learning a language but the school conveniently ‘forgot’ about the composite kids who were also supposed to learn the language that year. My child also claimed to have learned nothing new whatsoever in maths the whole year. The composite system in Scotland is a total mess.

He’ll be off to high school in a few years and it’ll be better for his resilience now if he moves class. He’ll make new friends and keep the old ones. He’s done really well on his own merit and not just because his friends have propped him up.
The decision will have been made on account of his age anyway.

You’d have to complain to the council. They drag their heels over looking at it but ask for a fast track as you would need your child to start the new term in the preferred class ideally. There will be a publication on your council website about how the composite it arranged and any appeals process. If you don’t like what the council decides then it’s a complaint to the Public Services Ombudsman for Scotland.

To put a different slant on this - is your child very reliant on these other boys for support?

we saw this in our class - where a child was very suffocating to another for support. The mum basically said move the other child, that reasonable adjustments shouldn’t punish her child to be away from friends. The child was trying to be kind to help this child but was being suffocated and couldn’t move without a shadow because the other child’s asd didn’t recognise it.

In our council it's done very strictly on age grounds and there's very little wiggle room.

However, my DS and his closest friend fell either side of the age cut off, DS was the youngest not in the composite, his friend tte oldest in it. They stayed close and in the later years, I wish DS had been in the composite, capped at 25, all very similar age. It might be a better fit for your DS. My DS went off to high school and the shuffling made that transition easier and he's still close to the friend from the other class.

So if he doesn't get moved, there are positives - smaller class, more homogeneous in age even if technically different year groups and it will make some of the high school transition easier in the future.

They can't stretch class sizes in Scotland so if the other class is full, it is full, they'll need to move another child into the composite to accommodate yours. That could be tricky as that parent is likely to complain about a move at this stage.

Why only 6 children from P5, that's unusual. How many will be in the P6 half of the class? Usually a composite class is as balanced as possible.

Our school splits by DoB and gender, there's an 'older' and 'younger' class for each year group. I don't think it makes much sense as with deferred children in the mix there's a huge gap developmentally and physically between the oldest and youngest children.

Schools definitely have leeway. Our primary school did similar in terms of age. When DD was starting P1 she was one of the oldest in the class should have been in the P 2/1 class. The problem was that DS was also in the P2/1 class as an actual P2 (very small age gap) so the school switched kids around to keep them separate and not have them in the same class. There is leeway

It certainly isn’t done on age in Edinburgh.

If it’s a no and you are not wanting to escalate, I’d ask for a clear picture of what cross over the classes will have and what more they would consider. For example, will they have maths sets or reading groups set across the classes? Will they have choir or PE games together? Will there be collaborative projects during topic learning?

Given schools have broken for the summer, I assume no transition work was done to meet the class together etc before breaking up? Why not?

If not, why not? What of these could they facilitate. Has the school had composites before? What did they learn from them? How will they support the transition the following year of the P7s heading off. What will happen to these 6 children when they reach P7?

If it's a complete no, I would want to know what support will be put in place for the transition. Be optimistic, say you hope for the best and he will settle but would like to know the plan for support if needed and what that may look like. It will indicate how much thought they actually have put into it. If they have plans take note so you can follow up if needed.

Some extremely helpful replies. I’m very grateful to everyone who contributed to the thread. This is been Mumsney at it’s best - genuinely constructive advice and no negativity. I met with the deputy head this afternoon and she gave the go-ahead for my son to move. They emphasised very strongly that it would have been a no were it not for another child in the p5 class withdrawing. We’re delighted.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask but I do think there are real benefits to being in a split year class.
For example, in Montessori schools, classes are generally done like this on purpose because the younger students learn a lot from the older ones.
I wonder if your school felt this is something your son would benefit from?

Or, as another poster said, maybe they've put the more academically capable ones in this group?

It might also be a gentle introduction to changes in classes before he's ready to move up to secondary school?

So I'd probably want to know the thinking behind it before making a decision. Plus talk to your son and see what he thinks?

So pleased for you all Let's Go!