Should schools be closed at 35°C?

[DancingThroughLife02]

Not really an AIBU but looking ahead at the forecast for next week and it’s looking like a scorcher.

I work in a secondary school in a science classroom (which seems to get extra hot during practicals) and we have no fans or AC or anything at all to keep the children cool. Open windows don’t seem to help much. The thermostat in the classroom got above 30°C in the afternoon.

The children need to have their water bottles filled at break times and lunch times only and are not allowed to fill them during lessons - which I disagree with as so many come to me saying that they didn’t get a chance to fill theirs up in the 20 minute lunch break.

Last week I had children saying they were dizzy and feeling sick, and they’re made to go outside during breaks. I’m also not sure that anything I taught them during the extra hot days actually stuck in anyway as they all seemed melted onto the desks.

I know there is a legal lower temperature limit for classrooms/workplaces but maybe with the increasing summer temperatures over the last few years we need to start considering investing in ACs as the heat in summer seems to be more prolonged than a couple hot days and in the meantime consider health and safety of the students (and teachers as even I was beginning to feel a bit dizzy).

I agree to the watching a film in a cooler part of the building. I doubt employers are going to give approval for last minute time off work for working parents to stay at home with their children.

My classroom was over your 'comfortable temperature' of 24 degrees last week and it's not a science lab.

What on earth do you think the situation in schools is like if you think it is 'not safe' over 24 degrees? Normal classrooms next week will be well over 30, possibly over 40 on the hottest days.

Reading all the comments saying “people in hot countries all over the world go to school” 🙄

I am white British with entirely Scottish and Nordic ancestry. People like me have not evolved to exist in extreme heat. You’d be shocked at how ill I get in 25 degrees plus (vomiting, diarrhoea, hallucinations 😂🫣). There is absolutely no way I’d be learning anything at 35 degrees, I’d be in pure survival mode.

I don’t think schools being off is really an option, I just think the UK needs to start mandating AC in schools and hospitals etc. I just wanted to challenge this notion that “we can all just learn to cope with hot weather”.

@noblegiraffe you’re my role model! I’ve been following you on threads since around 2016 😂

As a new teacher I am finding the inflexibility so difficult - does it ever get easier?

I agree . About the window I think advice is to let air in when it’s cool but to close up as soon as it starts getting hot. Do you not even have blinds? I know the secondary school near us are finishing class at lunch time next week ( France)

The dc will be going in on Monday, have 'D&V' on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, and go back in on Friday.

I don't care if I get a warning. The dc always have glowing reports for respectful behaviour and good scores. And we've had absence warnings nearly every year because of dc's disability and hospital stays anyway.

I care more about my dc's health than the schools attendance scores.

We live in a hot climate and you are correct that the schools aren’t air conditioned but the summer holidays have already started and continue to mid-September.
Another option for the UK to save expensive refits and energy bills would be to cut the Easter holidays and shorten half terms and extend the summer holidays.

It’s emergency leave like any other, I have to do it for snow days, illness, bereavement. Yes it’s a pain in the arse but it comes with having kids.

I taught food a few years ago and mentioned to office staff I was changing my practical lessons for the week because of the hot weather, slt overheard and I got an email saying to carry on as normal because OFSTED were due so I needed to stick to the SOL. My classroom reached 52°c and I had 5 children faint over the Monday-Tuesday. I said I was ill for the rest of the week and didn’t attend because it made me feel so exhausted being in the heat all day. I don’t think we should close but I think there should be adaptations made.

I was a HoD. Our SLT ran roughshod over everything. That seems to be the way of it nowadays. The union was useless.

The design of new builds contributes to the problem. I've seen umpteen schools with the same daft design being built across the UK - there's a central "Street" area which is used in lieu of a dining hall and is never big enough for all the children to sit comfortably.

I last did a bit of supply in a very large new build last year. Lunchtime queues were ridiculous.

As I've said upthread, lunchtimes are being cut back - there are various reasons given, but (in my view) the powers that be are trying to cut back the length of time that people are in the building as part of cost-cutting measures.

For the last several years of my career, we didn't even have our own janitor and cleaners. The janitorial team had to lock up several schools and weren't even onsite most of the time. The cleaning was put out to contract and the cleaners had to lock up.

Any maintenance problems had to be emailed to a Business Manager who then emailed the LA and hoped for the best - a significant issue, when you're dealing with broken toilet mechanisms, classrooms with inadequate/faulty air conditioning...

This was pretty much what I did when I was still a Head of Department (not in Science). It didn't make a difference, but I was covering myself.

Sorry I’m not sure why you are being snippy at me!

it is not “my comfortable” 24 degrees!!

whilst there is no legal limit there is various guidances out there from different organisations that suggest 24 to 26 degrees becomes uncomfortable.

the situation in schools is literally the point of the whole thread.

maybe you need some water to cool down

Jeez

Yes, of course they should be closed.
Our school has been measured in the 40s upstairs when it gets like this. We have children who feel sick, dizzy, lethargic ... some are actually sick ... yet we are required to stay open. We have staff who get heat stroke, too!!

There's no place to hide from it in our school building or on our school grounds ... hardly any shade at all ... and air conditioning is YEARS away. No money for it or intent from the government to bring it in in the foreseeable future.

Schools need to be closed when schools reach those temperatures.

I'm very happy for school to be closed. I bet working parents less

Staff in mainstream would love to do that, but it's simply not allowed. (ETA Certainly not in secondary. I recall more leeway in primary when I was a child, but that was back in the '60s and '70s.)

Yes I do believe schools should close in those temperatures, but they don’t so I keep mine at home when it does. Dd1 is in secondary school and has to wear her blazer all day no exceptions no air con or even a fan. Dd2 primary, sun in her window all day no blinds so they have play all day inside the hall with very little learning. It’s going to be high 30s here so they will stay home until the temperature drops

When I was at school in 1976 we had classes from 13.30 to 15.45, no access to water and the only concession made was that we could take our ties off and indoor top buttons. I don’t remember anyone expecting anything more.

How have you coped through life? I'm Scottish too but worked for years as a chef. The July 22 heatwave was notably miserable. Someone brought in a room thermometer and the kitchen was 46 degrees. But workplaces don't shut down. My friend is a nurse and its a similar story on her ward.

They allow water bottles at the desks. Thought this was standard.

A lot of very pale very celtic people move to hot climates and do fine with the proper precautions against the sun, you might I would see the doctor about your condition, perhaps there‘s something going on.

It depends on the inflexibility tbh. Sometimes inflexibility is good - I like being able to say 'school rule is you can't fill your water bottles during lessons' because it saves the endless arguments about whether you should let Billy go when you know he is going to piss around when you previously let Sally go because you trust her not to piss around. It just stops all that dead.

But some schools do seem to have mad rules like keeping blazers on all the time. Mine doesn't, which is good because I'd definitely be flouting it in my classroom! I let kids keep their coats on when it is cold, and if SLT complained I'd be saying that in that case they need to fix the broken radiator in my classroom. It hasn't come up yet though.

Is your school super strict? I couldn't work in one of those schools...

This is exactly what I’m doing

They will not. A room at home with, say, 5 people in it isn't as hot as a classroom at school with 30+ people in it. The reason is that people generate heat.

Its done do the school day is shorter now than it used to be. Secondary students used to end school day at 4.20 when I was at school, now our local one ends at 3 pm. Doesn't start an earlier than we did so shorter breaks and lunch.

We didn't have water bottles in the summer of '76.