Should schools be closed at 35°C?

[DancingThroughLife02]

Not really an AIBU but looking ahead at the forecast for next week and it’s looking like a scorcher.

I work in a secondary school in a science classroom (which seems to get extra hot during practicals) and we have no fans or AC or anything at all to keep the children cool. Open windows don’t seem to help much. The thermostat in the classroom got above 30°C in the afternoon.

The children need to have their water bottles filled at break times and lunch times only and are not allowed to fill them during lessons - which I disagree with as so many come to me saying that they didn’t get a chance to fill theirs up in the 20 minute lunch break.

Last week I had children saying they were dizzy and feeling sick, and they’re made to go outside during breaks. I’m also not sure that anything I taught them during the extra hot days actually stuck in anyway as they all seemed melted onto the desks.

I know there is a legal lower temperature limit for classrooms/workplaces but maybe with the increasing summer temperatures over the last few years we need to start considering investing in ACs as the heat in summer seems to be more prolonged than a couple hot days and in the meantime consider health and safety of the students (and teachers as even I was beginning to feel a bit dizzy).

I get that, it’s one of the reasons I left teaching. But if we have a week a year when we can’t do the set learning objectives but can learn other skills, is that so bad? Obviously, individual teachers have to follow the policies of their trusts, but if it’s ok to spend a day watching/competing at sports day, why is a slow day in a heat wave so unthinkable?
Goodness knows we need to remember how to slow down and count the beasties in a meter hoop.

There needs to be some sort of maximum temperature by law that requires providing appropriate ventilation or something. It’s becoming unbearable and it will only get worse over the years.

I’m absolutely dreading work because there’s no air con and no plans to have it either. In a carpeted office designed to keep the heat in, its absolutely insane.

Schools are places of learning; not much learning gets done in 35 degrees (temp inside). I have taught feeling sweat literally running down my legs. It is horrendous. The kids feel ill and lethargic. They are not allowed outside at lunchtime because of the sun/heat, yet it is hotter inside. It would be so much better to close for the week, but parents want childcare.

In Malaysia, schools can close if they are over 37 degrees for three days

https://www.bernama.com/en/news.php/news.php?id=2538158

Singapore is also looking at cooling rooms, etc, in schools and says this is for when: A heatwave in Singapore occurs when the highest daily temperature is at least 35 degree Celsius for three consecutive days, and the average temperature every day is at least 29 degree Celsius.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/heatwave-schools-home-based-learning-cooling-spaces-heat-stress-5010796

The difference is kids in those countries are used to the climate there. Kids here are not.

I will stop now but I have shown schools on three different continents in countries that are used to the heat all think that the temperatures we are about to experience are very hot for schooling and need special measures taken.

Oh yes. Children and teachers should suffer because prisoners do.
as staff you have I presume the opportunity to move into cooler areas, have a fan etc. not set in a room of 25 to 30 other heat generating bodies weather internal temperature of the space will be closer to 45° and expected to learn

37° is considered too hot in Parts of Australia, South Africa, Malaysia and Singapore

But lion thinks it’s fine And clearly, they know better

They’re in mind the countries that I’ve named also have buildings that are generally built with that sort of heat in mind so the internal space is unlikely to be reaching the temperature they are here

If you think sitting in our classroom of 25 to 30 Heat generating bodies That will reach more like 45° Isn’t anyway going to be conducive to learning and I think maybe you need to go and do a little bit more research

As for the poor teacher, who is going to be in that single room most of the day I suspect you might find you have problems with your staffing in their Health

That's absolutely crazy to me. My kids get an hour. They go to an old Victorian primary school it's boiling in the summer and freezing in the winter so not ideal but have access to water any time they want even in nursery.
Sounds horrific to be honest.

You should go to your union if its going over directed hours.

And for goodness sakes let them full up their water bottles! Please dont have a 'computer says no' attitude in this weather. Id tell my kid to go fill it up anyway.

YANBU but as an interim....
The government should invest in schools. Actually, I should just stop there.

But.. the government should invest in schools to make them more comfortable during this weather. That might include shutters to shield from the heat, awnings for cool areas outside, more trees on the grounds for shade, along with air-conditioning. It might mean more drinking facilities so children can refill their bottles easily and quickly.

There should also be a relaxing of the uniform rules. I know some do already allow PE kits to be worn on hot days but not all do. Some still expect blazers etc to be worn until permission is given from the teacher.

It’s forecast 39C in London and above 30C in most of the south!

Don’t you think that’s hot? Or are you just living in your own little bubble?

I think the point was that children will be the workforce in the future. Learning that stuff still needs to be done is a lesson in itself.

Clearly if a classroom is 40 degrees that’s not going to work for a traditional lesson. Schools will have to adjust learning to different classrooms, outdoors in the shade whatever.

I was listening to a school that had no running water for two weeks and kept going using bottled water for loos etc. I was impressed.

A lot of work places have air con however.

Many that don’t also don’t have an overly strict uniform either.

So Tesco might have a proper uniform but aircon. Office might not but often allow staff to just dress sensibly.

To be honest you don't want to open windows when the outside temperature is at heatwave temperatures. You need to cover the windows and keep the sun out. @MrsMurphyIWish

I haven't read all 17 pages, but I was born in 1950. 1959 was the hottest driest summer of the 20th century..1976, no rain for 3 months. Water was rationed, it was turned off to homes, you had to go and collect it from a standpipe in the street. You had a water fountain at school,you queued up for a drink, playtime,lunch break..No one died.

It’s like Covid again. Where are all these extra cooler classrooms? Where is there shade on a concrete playground? And if there was a tree, can it accommodate 1250 pupils?

Honestly, I wonder what the schools are like that MN parents send their kids to cos I assure you that in 26 years I’ve never taught in a school that has space/windows that open etc

And I’m sure Ofsted would relax inspections for needlepoint under the fictitious tree.

There's an amber weather warning in place for the South East. This is not a usual heatwave. We have seen higher temperatures but the key difference this week is that it isn't going to cool off overnight - meaning buildings, infrastructure will just retain and build heat.

I do think it's fair for individual schools to make a decision based on the best interests of their pupils and staff

In my classroom the windows are floor to ceiling, covering 3 wallls. I have blinds but they’re broken because, you know some teens like to trash stuff. I’m going to try and put backing paper up tomorrow at least then I can say to kids that I’ve tried.

700 people died due to heat related illness during the summer of 1976.

There was a 33% spike in hospital admissions in London.

If people weren't just trying to be goady teacher haters as per usual, they'd agree that trying to learn in 35+ degree rooms is almost impossible. None of us would learn anything either, and we'd be less likely to be reluctant if we were trying to.

The answer can't be 'shut schools', as we know from covid that schools are mostly just considered childcare, and teachers are just providing that childcare and don't really matter in the scheme of things.

Maybe we should be allowed to watch telly all week while kids bring in gentle things to do if they can be arsed. That's what the kids would be doing at home - trying to sit in cool rooms watching TV, or being outside under shade, or being in water. Since the latter two things are not options in most schools (either no shade or not enough shade for 1500 people to be sat under it, and if there is a miracle pool on site, again 1500 people don't fit in it at once), we should just do the childcare. And kids can wear whatever they like. So long as we can't see their arses.

A lot of assumptions being made about all the mad skills-for-life teachers may or may not have, and resources that will almost certainly NOT be available. Just find 1500 needles and we can all learn to sew from a 25 year old physics teacher who still lives with his mum, while sitting under outdoor shade. Haha. Jesus... in fact, that sounds fun, let's do it.

Where possible and esp for nursery and primary whjch are often one storey ,an awning or sale would make a huge difference to keep the sun off windows.

We do this at home and making sure from the outside that the sun doesn't hit really helps.

How much would these thing cost?

Sail

surely if they can't do anything with adding air con, then the rules IN school need to change

Utilise a mix of indoor and outdoor (in the shade/where available) learning
Include water breaks in the lessons/give pupils easier access to chilled drinks/water
Shorten lessons & increase breaks
alter the uniforms (allow shorts or for the PE kit to be worn)
adjust learning to better suit the heat/conditions.
allow personal fans or for teachers to bring them in to their classrooms (have some staff pat test trained it does not take long)
Get proper shades fitted to the windows

Inject the SLT with some basic fucking common sense that means pupils and staff aren't being expected to continue 'as normal' in classrooms trying to do an impression of Mordor.

Have any of you been in a classroom when a bee comes in? You know where bees live right? No one would be able to hear me give the 300th explanation of how to thread a needle over all the insect related meltdowns going on.