To think carers should be jailed

[InBedBy10]

That man who threw that poor child into the alligator enclosure is said to be severely mentally disabled. He was out with 2 carers who clearly weren't watching him when this happened. Witnesses have said they were on their phones. AIBU to say they should be charged for this incident?

To be honest this is not the first time i have heard about carers being totally negligent and getting away with it. Instead the care company they worked for was sued. Which will probably happen here. But i think its totally wrong that the people directly responsible can walk off into the sunset with no repercussions. There needs to be more liability put on people in this position.

only if the same logic applys to everyone, make errors and its jail

Yes, people saying shit on line is always a reliable source of truth. Nobody ever makes stuff up for effect or exaggerates online.

Any actual witness statements will be with the Police, not distributed on Twitter or via the tabloids. The broadsheets have reported the minimal info released by the Police (man bailed, not fit for interview, presumably pending appropriate interviewers) and focused on the rescue effort.

Or that his physical size required two carers if eg he fell or had an accident. Two carers does not mean “dangerous” it simply needs that two carers are required for certain aspects of care.

I wonder whether it will be revealed that the vulnerable adult had previously shown signs of such erratic or violent behaviour. And I know I'll get flamed for this, but perhaps care homes should re-evaluate where people who may pose a risk are taken for days out.

"We're not low paid or poorly trained. We have to have qualifications and can make a decent wage with experience. But im not in England, maybe its different in your country."

There is your answer. Maybe don't talk about an industry in a country you know nothing about.

It is the local authority who in all care cases FUND the care and allocate care providers to to families of the learning disabled in need that should be held accountable for negligence. Any posters saying anything different obviously have no idea of how the "care system" works. Local authorities issue jobs and care agencies bid for them. Local authorities allocate care agencies to care and take the most vulnerable out into the community based on the cheapest bid not on who will provide the safest and best care for the learning disabled. Do any of you that are disagreeing with the OP actually have any direct experience of having a learning disabled or severely learning disabled child? If not then BUTT OUT because you don't know what you are talking about. I speak from experience and am shocked at how little these posters know. It is the local authority of that man that are responsible for what occurred and should be sued by the child, family of child, learning disabled and any witnesses for trauma they suffered. The zoo is not responsible.

How do you know how many incidents there are? The extreme cases get in the news but many will not. My toddler was attacked by a man with LD in a play park who was with two carers. Others on this thread have related violent attacks in similar situations. I never told the police, they’ll be no criminal record of this.

You know, I veer between thinking that, Lammy's trial by Judge idea is an appalling decision, that will lead to a lack of true redress and justice for victims (especially given recent sentencing decisions and statements by some Judges), and then remembering that juries will inevitably be made up of people like this, and then I think, maybe it's not such a bad idea, after all....

Given the amount of adults I’ve known who gone out with one to one care I very much doubt this is it.

In point of fact if he was a resident of a care home then two carers will normally be mandatory for any outside visit. Simply because carers are human beings who sometimes need to eat and use the loo.

It tells you precisely nothing about the person in care with respect to safety. Carers are not security guards.

Yes very poor judgement by the care agency. It should have been obvious a zoo was an unsuitable place for a very disabled and physically strong man. He would have had no choice and no understanding of the consequences of his actions. He should not have been taken there. Old style Institutions were certainly not wonderful places but they could have been moderniised and improved. Throwing vulnerable people out into a community that is not safe for them or others has not worked.

From care homes? People with high needs?

Or people who have care visits and go to the shops with their carer?

I’d like to see evidence that residential care homes for very high needs adults are sending residents out for day trips with a single carer. It contradicts most care policies.

So who is going to be held responsible for this?

You are talking nonsense

Absolutely if there is actual evidence that they were deliberately not following the rules for caring for him that they had been told to follow. However some mentally disabled people, like small children, do unpredictable things very fast. I have been there, and sometimes situations unfold in the blink of an eye, with no warning even when everyone is doing sensible things and following rules to the letter.

Well I don’t work in England either but regularly come into contact with carers in a professional capacity. To a man or woman they are on minimum wage or just above it and if you talk to them it’s very clear that they have very limited training, many also are made to work ridiculous hours by the companies employing them.
All are trying their very best in often very challenging and difficult situations often with aggressive clients with severe learning difficulties.

How about the botanical gardens, or a nice park?

My toddler was attacked by a man with LD and two carers in a nice park.

The latter but your example was 2 To 1 if they fell. People requiring care visits can also fall and be unable to get themselves up, unlike the fit young man who attacked my son.

as with all cases there needs to be a thorough investigation into the situation

we have no idea of this man has been violent before or showed aggressive tendencies towards children or how professional the careers where or if his risk assessment is up to date and so on

that poor boy and his family it’s absolutely horrific to think what he went through

I think it’s no wonder the social care sector is struggling to recruit when people immediately jump on carers for everything. Who is going to want to work in a minimum wage job doing a very hard job where you are required to register as a professional, yet be treated as an ‘arse wiper’ by society? When anything happens the public immediately jump on you without knowing the circumstances of exactly what your job entails, or indeed what actually happened.

What on earth risk assessment would bring to mind the person may throw a child into the crocodile pit? If the individual had any history of issues with crowds, noise, children, violence or animals, does anyone actually believe two carers would happily take them to a zoo?? In the world of care there are things which can happen which absolutely nobody could predict.

IF they were indeed both on their phones and not paying attention then yes, they are not doing their jobs properly, but until we know what actually happened it is very wrong to be criminalising people.

As a care home manager I work with some excellent carers who are absolute treasures, and it saddens me to see people leave the profession because of the pressures on them from regulatory bodies who can’t even agree between themselves what is and isn’t good practice.

In our case the local authority provided us with 2 carers for an outing for my severely learning disabled. 1 of the carers could not speak a single word of English! It is GREED by local authorities and the care agencies who are more interesting in cutting costs and profiteering from the vulnerable that are responsible for incidents such as this. Even when it was raised with the local authority that one of the carers could not speak a word of English they officially didn't see an issue with it or accept that it was a safeguarding issue to provide carers who could not communicate with or understand what the learning disabled person was saying. THIS is the type of neglect and abuse that the learning disabled are subjected to by local authorities, care agencies and social services .

You obviously know nothing about the care system and those being cared for.
Heres a scenario Fred has learning difficulties and has no conception of danger, he has no aggressive tendencies but unsupervised he could run off and straight into the road. At home he only needs 1 carer because he’s happily sitting in his house the door is locked there are other carers on site if anything goes wrong. He goes out for the day to the local park close to a road he and his carer are enjoying themselves they’ve eaten an ice cream had a drink of lemonade and now the carer needs the loo. Dilemma she can’t take Fred with her so what the hell does she do?
So to prevent this from happening senior carer has done a risk assessment: this states Fred can’t be left unsupervised at all in the park as he could run off and into the road if carer needs the loo so we’ll send 2 carers local authority are aware and have even provided funds for this problem solved.

Look can we just stop with this level-headed, well considered circumspection. This thread has been started so people can rush to judgment from a position of ignorance.

I would like to see the Risk Assessment which should have been done before the visit

Well why don't you ask yourself or consider WHY unsuitable individuals would be sent out into the community with a person bigger or stronger than them. MONEY is the answer and the carer agencies, local authorities and carers have no interest in caring for keeping the learning disabled person safe. Their sole interest is getting paid for a service they are unable or unwilling to provide. WHY blame the learning disabled when it is already known this individual was incapable of being interviewed by the Police. The decision makers in the local authority, social workers, care agency and carers are the persons who should be criminally prosecuted for negligence.