To wonder how people who are A Nightmare at work don't realise they are

[CurdinHenry]

You know the ones - not just shit or mean but flamboyantly stressful and awful and if you end up on a project with them you might have to quit entirely. You try to grey rock them but they drag you back in with unforeseen madness and a true belief that they are the wronged geniuses in a sea of fools. In big organisations they go from team to team and everyone shudders when their name is mentioned (oh yes Sue is going to lead that project on NO not fucking Sue) but no one will ever say because you can't really can you.

But they get distressed and have narcissistic rages when people don't agree with them and add more and more and more chaos and never stop to think

Wait

Is it me?

I work with an absolutely horrible man, a terrible bully encouraged to report staff to management for any perceived issues, however he is also the laziest man so is reporting staff for not doing his actual responsibilities. If you call him out or defend yourself he will claim he is being bullied and every one is racist. Because he acts so jolly all the time even when being a arse he genuinely thinks he is a fantastic team player with who the department can’t function without.

We have one at the moment - she's driven three colleagues onto sick leave of various durations and can turn any meeting or project she's brought into into utter chaos.

It is incredibly wearing and stressful - I've requested and had a move within the team to reduce my level of exposure to her, but this week we're low on management, she's a higher band than me (joys of the NHS) and she is constantly asking me what to do, she hasn't learnt processes in over a year of being with us - and apparently it's in hand and heading down capability - but it's so slow it's going to break more of us at this rate (probably me since I seem to be the go-to for everyone when management are on leave).

I alternate between thinking lots of it is weaponised incompetence and wondering if she really has no realisation of how much she complicates and fucks everything up - and I attempt to avoid the overspill of her workload onto others these days cos I'm bloody done with propping up her job as well as my own (and the two absent staff I'm covering for).

Mmm I was lumbered with a ‘Linda’ for about 14 years. She even pestered me in my private time. All about herself. Luckily I was able to fuck off and go no contact for my own sanity.

And this is so often the crux of the problem, we all have blind spots, we are all products of our environment and upbringing but sometimes we just need some feedback , why wouldn’t she think she was doing ok?

peoples emotional intelligence is generally low (you’ve only got to look on here) so a lot of people are oblivious and then you’ve got the cohort of over thinking people pleasers ( I count myself in that). I’d like a bit of the oblivious stuff to be honest!

I had a manager like this. How he got the job and maintained his position for over a decade, god only knows. 🙄But atm, I'm working in a job where someone thinks that not washing themselves everyday, not cleaning their teeth every morning and not washing their clothes is a requirement but they perform their job superbly. Not sure which I think is worse really 🤔😑

1000% this!

Some people are just are bloody awful and in my opinion need telling so. I did have it out with one member of staff here and things have calmed down a lot.
It wasn't just my opinion it was everyone's opinion.

We also have a stinker and nobody wants to work with her.
i'm talking really really awful bad breath and strong unwashed body odour and dirty clothing - unwashed.
We are NHS so it's not acceptable as patients have commented on it.
I don't feel this is my job it's a management issue but they will not deal with it.

The problem is no one will have difficult conversations with these people or put them on a performance plans and manage them out. So they stay blissfully unaware no one wants to work with them.

Yep I have one person in our team who is a nightmare. It's well known within the team, they cause tangents add to other people's workloads due to the failure to do aspects of their job they don't want to do and will just debate or complain.

It's well known in our team and management. Any attempts to readdress they put in harassment claims to HR (public sector). Its an absolute PITA.

This is absolutely spot on.

I too have worked in a variety of private sector and public sector roles. The difference in the level of pissing about in the public sector is staggering. You just couldn’t do it in the private sector because the finances just wouldn’t work.

In my last role at a charity our COO would not ever make a decision. He specialised in dodging ever even offering an opinion on something. He had his head in the sand about a matter of huge operational risk that our Trustees tried to raise with him several times to no avail. He spent his time rewriting the HR policies instead.

Of course the operational issue became a problem and 60% of the staff had to be made redundant

You just described two people I manage. It’s exhausting. They are convinced they are soooo valuable, I spend a lot of time sorting out mess they cause.

the reason they don’t realise they are a nightmare is because they have absolutely no self awareness!

The reason she thought she was doing ok was due to weak senior management who had no appetite for actually managing people and management in the public sector who seem to be terrified of a tribunal or using HR.

She had had feedback a few years ago (on a previous team) about her work, behaviour and conduct. She had got the union in and mentioned contacting ACAS and senior management (above the manager who cited concerns) rolled over and instead redeployed her to another team. Therefore she's spun the narrative to everyone that the previous manager just didn't like her. It was pretty much an open secret that every department had a turn having "Sue" (not her real name) and if you wanted rid of her you complained to senior management above you and started following HR procedures against Sue and they would move her out your team.

When she entered our team our manager (previously from the private sector) was appalled that her behaviour had gone unchecked for years and that everyone just accepted that "Sue didn't do certain work - even if it is in her job description, and "it's just Sue's personality to be rude/ confrontational", and "that's just the way Sue is" and "Sue has never attended training on x because Sue doesn't want to use it" even if x was important to the team she was on. It was a given that Sue would come in at 9.10, take a full lunch break and leave at 4.30 even though her hours were 9-5.

I am biting my tongue not to let rip at our resident nightmare right now who has proceeded to dramatically answer a question asked - and answered by me 2 hours ago (but she's a higher pay band so obviously needs to look important).

I swear I could move to Australia and this woman would still be messaging me asking how to save a word document.

@Icecreamandcoffee absolutely this. It astounds me how many people in my organisation literally do what they like. Come and go as they please, pick and choose their tasks and projects, have the whole office run around them regardless of seniority. The NHS seems utterly incapable of even contemplating addressing capability issues never mind doing anything about them.

But doesn't the blame for so much of this rest with managers who just won't manage? They were the bane of my sister's working life - people who hid in their offices and refused to confront employees like those described here: the bullying, smelly, rude, lazy or incompetent. They didn't want the aggro and stress of dealing with managing them - but they did want the nice salary and status. So their colleagues were left to suffer and often to carry their workload too.

A friend who ran a small company used to complain about one of his managers who had sought promotion but clearly hadn't taken on board the expectations and responsibilities which came with that promotion.

I think some of them know they are awful and some of them enjoy being difficult. I agree about the lack of managing these people out of a business which is the desired option. Unlike a marriage where you can end it because relationships have broken down, you cannot do that in an employment contract.

I always worked in the public sector. At my last job the office bully was left to make the lives of others a misery. The manager did nothing. In fact she was often seen whispering with the bully. The delusional office lunatic was sometimes taken aside but that always culminated in the managers laughing and joking with her lest she started picking on them. No one was managed. No one. They were too scared to make any decisions. A miserable set-up.

I feel I am becoming difficult, I am at the “what’s got into her” stage rather than the nightmare stage. I know it’s because of burnout, I have an exit strategy and I am now pushing back on things I’d have grumbled just to my DH about.

Last three experiences have been with women managers . Somehow they seem to think that they need to Boss Bitch in order to prove something . So everybody hated them, refused to work with them. Management kept moving them around as probably cost a lot to get rid . Just no need to manage a team by bullying , threats and attitude. Management training should be compulsory in most organisations.

I worked in the NHS and sat on so many committees where they discussed the problem, decided on a solution but until prompted didn’t actually assign the action to anyone then would be surprised in the next meeting that nobody had carried it out.

New boss.
Have discovered that they 'moved around a lot' in their previous organisation and moved because 'people didnt really seem to want to explore things (ideas)'
They dont want to explore your ideas because your ideas involve you expecting everyone to explore every great idea while ignoring the fact that we dont have unlimited time money and resources so have to prioritise the day job....

I do look at some i have worked with so far in my life and wondered how the f have you been allowed to do such a useless job or be a b?
1st job our of college in my field I studied in delighted then I found out that no one stayed in my job due to a horrific b in my team. she thought she was invincible. no one allowed to talk because she needed to work window to be left open all the time - that was the tip of it. I was the only one who brought it to hr. she finally got moved but low behold I got "let go"
another job I got the person I worked with treated me like shite due to the fact that the perosn he was shaigging on the line didn't get the job. again management didn't deal with it
currently one of the managers I have to deal with is absolutely useless. he has three people reporting into him and all three have moved to different jobs on the company because of him. he on annual leave today and tomorrow. sent him ab email to book something for me tomorrow, email sent 9am yesterday he only has access to the system etc. its for an important customer and if ships Friday they will get Monday. it takes him 5 mins to do - did he do it no. so I spent half my day trying to figure it out and get it booked why leave and not have your work covered ? same company we have a cocky little sh who has taken over from some one who did an excellent job and was so nice. he only doing the job 6 months (it's quite intense job need to be organised and know certain things) and all ready the line has gone down twice all because of his f ups..never before happened in the 10 years am there. but yet nothing is said to him he actually got praise in one meeting 🙄 I rolled my eyes at that. he has to do reports every month they are always wrong. he reports into my boss but he never says anything.
the other thing which ammoys me is my company gone big on bringing people back to office so more collaboration and productivity 🙄 have had a huge project to finish this week. relied on 2 people to do certain things have had to hound them every day the past two weeks to get it done. they are in the office every day and still didn't do their job. so being proof being present doesn't mean productivity but yet the metrics are being met for staff on site 🤔 on a meeting other day and someone suggested we have a meeting with them on it I actually said you want a meeting with them to get them to do their task ?? mind boggles

Glad I'm not alone in the madness.

Nah, sorry, some people are nightmares. There’s different methods and then there’s being aggressive, incompetent, bullies.