AIBU to ask if shoplifting has effectively been decriminalised?

[IsawwhatIsaw]

I know there have been previous threads about shoplifting.
here’s another one, as I just heard our small local supermarket lost around 50 bottles of wine in a few minutes the other night.
apparently 3 men came in with big bags and set about clearing the wine shelves. Then casually walked out.
This shop has continuous shoplifting but not usually on this scale. Think more sweets, sandwiches, meat.
And there are very few staff in there now because of self service tills . Maybe the supermarket feels slashing staff numbers still works out cheaper the man stopping any theft deterrent .
so my Aibu is to ask whether shoplifting has been effectively decriminalized.

Certain stores have a threshold of amount stolen too. So they won't bother ringing the police if the items stolen are under £250. Security in my DH company have a zero hands on policy. It is mind boggling.

Yes, it's the same where I am in Canada.

People just walk out with stuff.

People break into your car or house, no response.

People take down their pants on a busy corner and inject drgs into their leg - police can do nothing.

Regular person walks down the street with an open can of beer, he will be arrested.

And people see this and the behaviour gets worse and worse. And there are still these people who say - oh these people are vulnerable, you can't arrest them.

Yes, we all get that some are vulnerable, addicts, whatever. That doesn't mean anyone should put up with living in a place like that. And shops will in the end take action and won't be there or will restrict who can enter. In my town there are many locking their doors in the day, you have to ring a bell. It's hurting business though and more and more are closing.

Its's hard for the stores. Part of the way our society works is we give up the right to take actions like laying our hands on people, and turn it over to the police.

There are a lot of good things about that system.

If clerks or even security take physical action or confront people, the store is liable for any harm that comes to the employee, or even to the shoplifter.

It's just not worth it and the insurance companies probably tell them they aren't allowed.

What really needs to happen is that people like this need to be publicly identified, and have all their government benefits removed.

A couple of years ago I saw a man being stopped by security for having stolen dozens of expensive smoked salmon packs in his bag.

The security guard dealt with him assertively and took it all back.

What amazed me was the anger from the thief. Instead of being embarrassed at being caught (and the inevitable people staring), he was so angry at the security guard for having dared to stop him, and racially abused the Asian security guard.

Well there seem to be no consequences any more. School violence - can't exclude them. Rapists - don't jail them. Teenagers committing any kind of crime - they're just young and don't understand right from wrong, let them off. Shoplifters - just let them (unless they look harmless like me, I'm sure I'd be stopped on the way out).

We're storing up a whole load of trouble.

That might work for a large supermarket, but small independent shops also have problems with shoplifting.
The sort of measures you describe would be too costly for them, and very inconvenient for customers and put them off.

Are you able to bar them from entering the shop in future - can the security guard stop them then, even by standing in the way of the door? I know they're not allowed to stop them leaving WITH their stolen items, but are they allowed the other way round?

It must be so frustrating for you!

My friend worked in HMV and it was an ongoing issue. The police were more interested in pursuing ASBOS and having them banned from town, which just moves the issue elsewhere

I read quite an eye-opening thread about shoplifting on Facebook the other day.
People, just ordinary seeming parents, were saying that they feel they are getting addicted to shop lifting because it's so incredibly easy. They know it's wrong, and they often can afford to just buy it, but it's just so easy to walk out with it, no consequences, no queuing, and you have a free item. They can't stop themselves.
I wouldn't do it myself but I could see where they were coming from. It must indeed be very addictive if it's that easy.

That's not a new phenomenon at all. (Though I think posting about it on Facebook is a bit mad.) But shoplifting can be addictive because it gives a thrill of doing something illicit (especially if one normally lives a staid boring life) and doesn't always have immediate consequences. There's a phenomenon around how we think about risk which is that if the bad thing doesn't happen the first time (getting caught) you degrade the risk in your head the next time and the next time even more etc. (This also relates to parents travelling without putting their kid in a car seat BTW. If someone does it once they are way more likely to fall into a pattern that only ends when something bad does happen). Of course, the problem is they will keep doing it until caught and, particularly if they do live a normal upstanding life, they can then fuck things up for themselves. Moreso than a junky fucks his/her life up through shoplifting.

Winona Ryder for example shoplifted for the thrill not the money. And that was years ago.

And it's always been "easy" to shoplift small things in particular. As I said though, the risks of getting caught and the consequences go up even as the person shoplifting perceptions of the risks and consequences decreases. This is a known thing, it's not unique to Broken Britain.

I'm going to need a hefty pay rise to start rugby tackling shop lifters 😂 we dont tend to trap them in the shop in case they become agressive (we can actually control the doors from the till) not sure how advising on purchases would stop people stealing? Should I ask them what they're having for dinner so they can steal the most appropriate wine?

Yes I agree, this makes total sense.

Peoples posting style on Facebook is becoming more and more daring as the ability to post anonymously is now an option in most groups.

They are bolder when people can't see their names.
..and meaner. Bit like mumsnet.

@SwirlyGates i agree there are unlikely to be consequences. Someone upthread mentioned there are 50,000 shoplifter prosecutions a year.
But a quick check online showed more than 500,000 cases reported last year alone. And How many not reported?
So statistically thieves are unlikely to be prosecuted and if they are, deterrents seem derisory.

I suspect they don't get reported as nothing gets done anyway.
There is no deterent.

Some of those prosecuted will be repeat offenders. So 500,000 incidents is not 500,000 individuals (and therefore 450,000 getting away with it). One person on a bit of a spree could easily rob from 10 places over a weekend. The first few places record their faces and report. By place number 10 the police/security guard either nab them in the act, or identify them and arrest them at home/wherever. If it goes to court that's likely one prosecution, 10 reported incidents.
The above is a description of the system working perfectly,.exactly as you would want. I'm not saying it does work like that. My point is even in a perfect system you would expect a difference between individual incidents and people procedures. So the discrepancy alone isn't a sign of the system failing.

They need to give harsh sentences to all shoplifters, no matter how little they have stolen. Even for a grape or a carrier bag they haven't paid for. Throw the book at them and lock them up.

I thought under £200 they couldn’t do anything about it. Plus anyway, if I was a security guard on minimum wage, I’m not going to risk getting stabbed because someone’s stolen a six pack and a loaf of bread. Not worth it 🤷‍♀️

On the flip side, you could have situations in America where the police are allowed to kill you if they suspect you of shoplifting. As happened to a 1 year old baby this week, who was shot in his mother's car, as she was suspected of stealing one pack of nappies from Walmart.