AIBU to think claiming two state pensions seems unethical?

[CoffeeAndCats3]

I wrote about this on another thread, but thought I'd start my own as it irks me and I'm wondering if IABU.

My parents emigrated from the UK in their early/mid thirties and have never lived in the UK since. They are now late 60's. My Mum told me recently that both her and my Dad are claiming a full UK pension, in addition to a full pension in the country them emigrated to. They don't need this money, but she seemed quite smug about how they can 'double dip' and live the Life of Riley while sitting on a load of money, rental properties etc. I told her it seemed a bit unethical to me, but she didn't understand my viewpoint at all.

How is this possible? She said that they only had to pay their (national insurance?) for a period of time after moving, to then be eligible for the full UK pension on retirement? Can someone explain to me if this is correct, as I half think they've scammed the UK system somehow!

How state benefits are given out affect all of us.

And why should it be different just because it's someones parents?

And immoral.

Me too. It was a no brainer. pay £185.50 for each year of pension? I also made sure my husband sorted his out before the deadline. It was a huge topic in expat circles.

I paid voluntary contributions for 25 years. Moved back to the uk and am a higher rate tax payer. What exactly is immoral about that?

There's plenty more "loopholes" that need addressing than this one I would say!

If you got on with your mother but she did something you don’t agree with are you never allowed to disagree or call it out?

What if she shoplifting every time you went to the shop. Yes slightly different example but can you not see the difference between liking a person and not liking their actions?

Jeez!

This one has been addressed by the government.

You are well aware that the idea that UK expats who only worked in the UK for 3 years could buy NI credits at a reduced rate while living outside the UK and paying no Uk tax, enabling them to receive full state pension was widely considered a loophole which is why public pressure meant measures were brought in to attempt to close elements of it.

Assuming its legal, who wouldnt claim it?
Instead why not post about the huge benefit fraud we have in this country?

What ridiculous hyperbole 🙄 (or maybe its projection?)

I started the thread as I was miffed and curious as to what my Mum was telling me was correct. Apparently it is. I disagree from an ethical point of view.

However I will continue to chat and spend time with my parents and help them when they need it. I can assure no there is no 'bitter and twisted' over here.

Class 3 is £956 a year.

They may be a bit disappointed, you are only entitled to a full pension if you have paid in for forty ish years,so even if they had jobs from being teenagers they would only have have about half a full pension. if th. Also when you draw a pension from abroad it is frozen at the level of when you left so it will not even be the level of half a pension in 2026.

class 3 is approaching £1000 a year now - it;s Class 2 that is much cheaper, and as someone else has reported that loophole has now been closed

I understands quite well, thank you.

In your original post I responded asking which NI contributions arrangements you were referring to, I was seeking clarification, some specificity, as quite a few different scenarios had arisen on the thread since then. That is all.

Whilst starting a thread on Mumsnet about how grabby they are! Very respectful! They are merely claiming what they are entitled to. If they weren’t you would probably be starting a thread to say how stupid they are. Blame the politicians not them. They didn’t make the rules.

Well you've made a thread inviting people to slag your parents off.

Did they use the phrase "double dip" or did you add it for effect?

I started work at 17, had children, went back and now just have two years to go to qualify (early 60s). My sister was in education till 21, went travelling and lived in Asia until 10 years ago. She’d never had a job in this country until she started working about 6 years ago and has now “filled-in” many years - she said about £200 per year. I’m pretty sure when I checked my history recently I’d been paying over £1000 per year in NI early 1990s. I love my sister but it’s hard not to feel I’m boring, slogging away. She’s just more astute than me! I lost one year’s contribution because of 6 weeks not paid when I went on maternity leave (always been PAYE) in 1996 but hadn’t realised. At least I only have 2 years to go (but will of course continue after that). Maybe I’m crazy but I do like to see “NI contribution” on my payslip!

I hate this argument, if anyone has any issue with taking tax money or avoiding tax in an ethically or morally questionable way (only made possible by loopholes), it's always jealousy. Sorry but no, it should be perfectly acceptable to question questionable ethics.

Some of our services like child protection and the NHS are on their arse, wealthy people (and of course the very rich) skimming the cream off the state or avoiding contributing whilst others struggle is a worthy topic.

I was typing out a response to the angry mumsnetters who have (inevitably) come out of the woodwork to have a go at me, but you've explained my thoughts/opinion perfectly so I'll just re-quote your response. Thanks!

And also subject to currency fluctuations.

I am in the EU, and in a country that means my pension won't be frozen. I am also included in the triple lock agreement. I am very fortunate.

@Whatwerewetalkingabout is absolutely spot on. It should be questioned— these people are exactly skimming the cream off the state.

More like £900 for each 'incomplete' year, but yes, you definitely get out more than you pay in

Always someone else to blame. No-one takes responsibility for their own actions these days.

And people wonder why the world is in the state it's in.

I have a friend who had her first child at 20. She hasn’t worked since and is now 44. Her youngest is 4. Her oldest now also has a child and is not working. At what point will this family pay enough to cover themselves?

They will qualify for Pension Credit, which is only £3 a week less than a full State Pension. Someone who has worked for 35 years + and fully paid all their NI, will only get £3 a week more. I had a thread on this a while ago, at the unfairness of that, and I was told IWBU. 😳