Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ckear support for proscribed terrorist groups must be treated very seriously

51 replies

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 16:10

72 pro Palestine protesters arrested outside a court in London for showing support for proscribed terrorist organisations.

Doesn't help our society and doesn't help people thousands of miles away. Fed up with individuals showing support for terrorist groups. Peaceful protest but its crossing the line actually supporting proscribed groups. It further divides our already polarised society.

Sky News today.

OP posts:
Evakan · Yesterday 17:58

I agree. And the marches should be banned. And I'm fed up of UK politicians running on "Gaza". Lets put the UK constituents and their needs first. Islamism has no place in UK society and we need to clamp down on it hard and fast.

faithfultoGeorgeMichael · Yesterday 18:02

@FSCEme Policing speech and playing "gotcha racist" is so fucking stupid right now. There are a majority of law abiding British muslims in the UK and there are also small groups that think Islamic principles and Sharia law should dominate a society's political, legal, and social systems. These are called Islamist by my culturally muslim SIL. It is a commonly used term.

However, I was not aware any Muslims killed in the last 5 years for their religious beliefs, can you send me some links? I can't find any googling, the most recent I can see was Ali Makram in 2017, which is horrifying, but not relevant to the war in Gaza or this conversation.

FSCEme · Yesterday 18:04

Evakan · Yesterday 17:58

I agree. And the marches should be banned. And I'm fed up of UK politicians running on "Gaza". Lets put the UK constituents and their needs first. Islamism has no place in UK society and we need to clamp down on it hard and fast.

Again with the Islamism rhetoric 🥴

FSCEme · Yesterday 18:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:11

Evakan · Yesterday 17:58

I agree. And the marches should be banned. And I'm fed up of UK politicians running on "Gaza". Lets put the UK constituents and their needs first. Islamism has no place in UK society and we need to clamp down on it hard and fast.

What does Islamism have to do with Palestine Action? There’s no mention of religion in their stated aims. They present themselves as a direct action group focused on opposing the arms industry and its links to Israel, so it seems like you’re conflating completely separate things. You can criticise their tactics without bringing Islamism into it.

Evakan · Yesterday 18:23

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:11

What does Islamism have to do with Palestine Action? There’s no mention of religion in their stated aims. They present themselves as a direct action group focused on opposing the arms industry and its links to Israel, so it seems like you’re conflating completely separate things. You can criticise their tactics without bringing Islamism into it.

Well who supports them? Islamists at the core, the deluded British students who have fallen for the propaganda. Gaza won't be free until Hamas are gone. And the people in Gaza right now who are against Hamas are being killed and/or raped. Hamas are Islamists and matching right now in support of PA is support for Hamas.

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 18:33

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 17:49

@ENGLANDalltheway why did you ask if the PP was aware Jewish people had been killed in the UK, what was the relevance of that on the context of this conversation?

Where did I ask that? I didn't.

OP posts:
HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:33

Evakan · Yesterday 18:23

Well who supports them? Islamists at the core, the deluded British students who have fallen for the propaganda. Gaza won't be free until Hamas are gone. And the people in Gaza right now who are against Hamas are being killed and/or raped. Hamas are Islamists and matching right now in support of PA is support for Hamas.

Support for Palestine Action doesn’t automatically map onto support for Hamas, and it definitely doesn’t map onto Islamism. They’re distinct things being conflated for effect.

Hamas is an Islamist armed group, yes, but Gazans are not all Hamas.

Criticism of Israel’s conduct or support for Palestinian civilians doesn’t require any religious or political affiliation.

By that logic, you’d also have to assume opposition to historical atrocities was limited to the victims’ in-groups, which obviously isn’t true. People opposed the Holocaust without being Jewish, just as people can oppose what’s happening in Gaza without supporting Hamas or Islamism.

People arrested in Palestine Action protests have included retirees, academics, healthcare workers, clergy members, students, former professionals & activists from a range of backgrounds. A wide range, certainly not majority islamists or deluded students.

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:34

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 18:33

Where did I ask that? I didn't.

Sorry tagged the wrong person it was @faithfultoGeorgeMichael

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 18:35

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:33

Support for Palestine Action doesn’t automatically map onto support for Hamas, and it definitely doesn’t map onto Islamism. They’re distinct things being conflated for effect.

Hamas is an Islamist armed group, yes, but Gazans are not all Hamas.

Criticism of Israel’s conduct or support for Palestinian civilians doesn’t require any religious or political affiliation.

By that logic, you’d also have to assume opposition to historical atrocities was limited to the victims’ in-groups, which obviously isn’t true. People opposed the Holocaust without being Jewish, just as people can oppose what’s happening in Gaza without supporting Hamas or Islamism.

People arrested in Palestine Action protests have included retirees, academics, healthcare workers, clergy members, students, former professionals & activists from a range of backgrounds. A wide range, certainly not majority islamists or deluded students.

Support for Palestinian Action is support for a proscribed terrorist organisation.

OP posts:
HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:39

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 18:35

Support for Palestinian Action is support for a proscribed terrorist organisation.

Yes it is (currently).

That doesn’t explain why people keep bringing up Islamism.

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 18:43

I didn't.

I was responding to your comment with a factual comment that, support for Palestine Action, a proscribed terrorist organisation, is illegal.

It is quite possible to support Palestine without supporting any proscribed terrorist organisations eg Palestine Action, The Houthis (remember those chanting in support of the Houthis attacking boats!) , or showing support for any terrorist organisation.

OP posts:
HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:46

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 18:43

I didn't.

I was responding to your comment with a factual comment that, support for Palestine Action, a proscribed terrorist organisation, is illegal.

It is quite possible to support Palestine without supporting any proscribed terrorist organisations eg Palestine Action, The Houthis (remember those chanting in support of the Houthis attacking boats!) , or showing support for any terrorist organisation.

Edited

I didn’t say you did. Perhaps you’re not best placed to respond to the comment aimed at someone else, who had brought up islamism several times.

Of course you can support Palestine without supporting PA. In fact, if I were the protesting type, that’s exactly what I would do. I haven’t got enough knowledge to know if they should have been proscribed, but the fact that they have been means you know what action you’ll face for publicly supporting them so could just as easily express solidarity without using that name.

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 18:50

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:46

I didn’t say you did. Perhaps you’re not best placed to respond to the comment aimed at someone else, who had brought up islamism several times.

Of course you can support Palestine without supporting PA. In fact, if I were the protesting type, that’s exactly what I would do. I haven’t got enough knowledge to know if they should have been proscribed, but the fact that they have been means you know what action you’ll face for publicly supporting them so could just as easily express solidarity without using that name.

My point exactly. It's easy to support Palestinian people without supporting proscribed terrorist organisations. Yet.... 72 people arrested today, continue to support a proscribed terrorist organisation. Makes me wonder. They should be dealt with as supporting a proscribed terrorist organisation since that's what they are doing. They are sending a message by their consistent support of a proscribed terrorist organisation. How about they stick to supporting Palestinian people 🤔

OP posts:
KatiePricesKnickers · Yesterday 18:51

@HobGobblynne ”Hamas is an Islamist armed group”

Hamas are an Islamist terrorist organisation.

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:58

KatiePricesKnickers · Yesterday 18:51

@HobGobblynne ”Hamas is an Islamist armed group”

Hamas are an Islamist terrorist organisation.

OK Hamas are a proscribed Islamist terror organisation. I’m not here to support them in any way, sorry if I’ve used different wording to you. Mine was still factual.

KateSixer · Yesterday 19:48

Some of the PA folk are quite mad. And some are very bad.

After a certain point, if they are that determined to carry on you just need to treat them all the same.

Can't we just find somewhere isolated to send them all? Maybe a disused oil platform or something?!

Whatever your view of the issues they don't benefit from being played out in the streets of the UK.

Evakan · Yesterday 19:59

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 18:33

Support for Palestine Action doesn’t automatically map onto support for Hamas, and it definitely doesn’t map onto Islamism. They’re distinct things being conflated for effect.

Hamas is an Islamist armed group, yes, but Gazans are not all Hamas.

Criticism of Israel’s conduct or support for Palestinian civilians doesn’t require any religious or political affiliation.

By that logic, you’d also have to assume opposition to historical atrocities was limited to the victims’ in-groups, which obviously isn’t true. People opposed the Holocaust without being Jewish, just as people can oppose what’s happening in Gaza without supporting Hamas or Islamism.

People arrested in Palestine Action protests have included retirees, academics, healthcare workers, clergy members, students, former professionals & activists from a range of backgrounds. A wide range, certainly not majority islamists or deluded students.

Deluded Britains, whoever they work for, are still deluded to the influence of Islamism, which is becoming a real threat worldwide. We need to be less "woke" and fight against this in our society.

FKAT · Yesterday 20:09

People arrested in Palestine Action protests have included retirees, academics, healthcare workers, clergy members, students, former professionals & activists from a range of backgrounds.

I have seen this argument made many times. And I still enjoy the ignorance, ageism and classism inherent in the notion that the clergy, doctors and students can't possibly be terrorist sympathisers.

Any history of totalitarianism will tell you the church and universities are first in the queue to join the mob.

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 20:54

KateSixer · Yesterday 19:48

Some of the PA folk are quite mad. And some are very bad.

After a certain point, if they are that determined to carry on you just need to treat them all the same.

Can't we just find somewhere isolated to send them all? Maybe a disused oil platform or something?!

Whatever your view of the issues they don't benefit from being played out in the streets of the UK.

Exactly.

OP posts:
OP posts:
HobGobblynne · Yesterday 21:09

FKAT · Yesterday 20:09

People arrested in Palestine Action protests have included retirees, academics, healthcare workers, clergy members, students, former professionals & activists from a range of backgrounds.

I have seen this argument made many times. And I still enjoy the ignorance, ageism and classism inherent in the notion that the clergy, doctors and students can't possibly be terrorist sympathisers.

Any history of totalitarianism will tell you the church and universities are first in the queue to join the mob.

I haven’t said they can’t be terrorist sympathisers. Keep up. I’ve acknowledged that PA are currently a proscribed group and therefore engaging with them is currently a terrorism offence.

Someone said PA is made up of islamists and deluded students. I’ve listed these to show that that’s not the case, PA is supported by a broad range of people outside of “Islamists and deluded students”

ENGLANDalltheway · Yesterday 23:42

HobGobblynne · Yesterday 21:09

I haven’t said they can’t be terrorist sympathisers. Keep up. I’ve acknowledged that PA are currently a proscribed group and therefore engaging with them is currently a terrorism offence.

Someone said PA is made up of islamists and deluded students. I’ve listed these to show that that’s not the case, PA is supported by a broad range of people outside of “Islamists and deluded students”

So:

"PA is supported by a broad range of people outside of “Islamists and deluded students”

Lovely.

Terrorist supporters of all backgrounds. Just what we need here in the UK.

Pleased to see the courts have come down on these filthy hate filled individuals. About time too.

OP posts:
KTheGrey · Today 08:25

PermanentTemporary · Yesterday 16:22

Perhaps useful to find out why so many ordinary men and women are willing to face arrest for this and support these organisations?

Frankly I wouldn’t touch it with a bargepole but my friends 79 year old mum has been arrested, so has my 62 year old friend and another 58 year old.

Those examples are all quite old, aren’t they? That’s a demographic that presumably have less to lose by being arrested - not going to have kids taken into care or lose career progression. I don’t know what conclusions can be drawn from that, if any.

Swipe left for the next trending thread