To think men should not be allowed to be gynaecologists

[CaragianettE]

Just that, really. Saw one last week. He was trying to be helpful, but I really really really don’t want to discuss ‘do you get clots’ ‘do you experience flooding’ ‘do you find intercourse painful’ with a strange man. Yes it would be awkward with a strange woman too, but at least I know she likely has some lived experience of what we are talking about. TBH I also question men’s motives for choosing this job, not just the licence to look at strange women’s vaginas, but I think there’s something deep in the male psyche that just loves laying down the law to women about their reproductive systems. It’s a job for a woman, and while I know men were allowed to train for it in the past, I think they should now be phased out.

Maybe they just like making women feel better and saving lives 🤷‍♀️

And thank fuck they do!

No issue with male gynaecologist here. Prefer a woman though.

You just have to google the issue to see there are gynaecologists who have been convicted for the sexual violation of patients though, usually after many years and dozens of patients. One predatory gynaecologist can cause a lot of harm, and unfortunately they don't wear signs telling you that they're predatory beforehand.

Unsurprisingly, when googling "gynaecologist sexual abuse" I didn't come across any female gynaecologists accused of sexual misconduct or sexual assault. Here's a few examples:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/army-gynecologist-took-secret-videos-patients-intimate-exams-lawsuit-s-rcna242846

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2002/jul/20/NHS.uknews

https://www.boltburdonkemp.co.uk/our-insights/posts/doctor-accused-of-rogue-hysterectomies-investigated-in-womens-health-scandal/

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/chicago-gynecologist-fabio-ortega-sexual-abuse-cook-county-skokie

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/former-gynaecologist-convicted-of-sex-assaults-on-patients-at-london-hospitals-a3279636.html

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-26/gynecologist-accused-of-abusing-patients-sentenced-20-years/102648188

https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/doctor-jailed-sexually-assaulting-female-patients

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/470354/gynaecologist-accused-of-inappropriate-comment-during-exam

I used to work with a lovely lady, regular church goer, lived in a very nice part of north Leeds, was not known for making things up or exaggerating. She was friends with a number of consultants and said men often go into gynaecology because there is always a lot of private work to be had and it’s very lucrative.

Not sure if it is true, but it seems believable.

DD does proctograms for a living, she finds defecating fascinating, but it really is just another part of the body to her, one whose function is extremely interesting, she is a very normal person whose line of work led her to bums.

Totally agree. Seeing a male gynie has put me off going for quite serious investigations.

Ridiculous. As long as he knows what he's doing, I wouldn't care.

It’s absolutely not ridiculous.

And to say women who have had experience of male gynocology and find it hugely uncomfortable are ridiculous is concerning. Particularly from somebody who hasn’t.

Ah, a fellow triple negative! Quite a rare type and definitely the most aggressive! I only know of three others.

In October 2018 I found a lump on the outside of my right breast. It felt like muscle, and on examination, the GP thought the same, so I just plodded along as normal. In December 2019, I found a lump in my left breast. I wasn't unduly concerned as I had a history of cysts, so was a regular at the local breast clinic and was used to having fine needle aspirations (FNA).

I got it checked out by my GP (a different one to before) and also mentioned the lump on my right breast. She thought it could be a lipoma. I was generally quite stressed at the time and couldn't face going to my local NHS breast clinic as the waiting room is very small and it was always so busy! I had just had a PPI payout, so used that money to go privately. It wasn't any quicker because, at that time, the NHS breast clinic was seeing referrals within a week. I saw Sascha on the Tuesday and she checked both lumps. With the one on my right breast I could sense immediately that she wasn't happy. She told me straightway that she would need to see me again on the Friday (£200 I hadn't budgeted for). Then she sent me off to have a mammogram, an FNA on my left lump (a cyst) and a biopsy on the right. Went back into see her and she confirmed I had cancer, but wouldn't know what type until Friday.

After that I decided to make a complaint to my GP surgery because the original GP hadn't referred me. He hadn't even written about the examination in my notes! On the way out, I had quickly asked about my contact dermatitis and that was all he had written! As it turned out, my oncologist then told me that the cancer would definitely not have been detectable in October 2018, so the tumour must have grown into that particular muscle. It was 40mm when removed and was growing at the rate of 1cm a month. That's because triple negative is so aggressive. If it's any consolation, triple negative is highly unlikely to come back after five years. If it's going to return, it will happen fairly quickly.

Were you referred for genetic testing?Because I hadn't long turned 60, I was tested for BRCA1, BRCA2 and PALB2. All clear, but I was advised that because of my history, DD could start routine screening at the age of 40 instead of 50. I was told that as genetic testing is advancing all the time, I would be informed if they ever discovered a dodgy gene.

I am glad you have completed your treatment and I wish you well.

Your workplace is really unusual - nationally in it’s about 3/4 female, and even higher at the trainee level. So people like the OP can rest easy knowing male OBGYN are being phased out, so to speak.

I was told triple negative very likely to return hence the large amount of adjuvant chemo.

I certainly didn’t have that lot for no reason.

A simple google search would also confirm that.

Anyway my male breast surgeon was amazing and I’m bloody glad I was in his care!

I do remember about ten years ago with a new intake of registrars there wasn’t a single female registrar. So fr a whole year only men. We did have a couple of female consultants. I remember one pregnant woman saying she wanted a guarantee when she went into labour only female doctors would look after her. We had to explain that no hospital could guarantee that, if she went into labour at a weekend or overnight it would be whoever was on shift. Even during a working day we can’t necessarily pull a female doctor out of clinic to cover labour ward for one patient. But that year we could guarantee her that she would NOT get a female doctor. She transferred care to another hospital. Which she’s entitled to do.

If female doctors need to spend time asking about premature ejaculation, early morning erections and examining testicular masses, should they be banned from being GPs for men because they're female? Or should the patients instead be offered a chance to book in with a male doctor if they're uncomfortable, or have a chaperone as needed?

And yes as I was under sixty I was genetically tested.

Don't think we've got enough doctors to be that picky OP.

Some of the ones who developed IVF did those jobs and were male. I don't see the issue.

How to totally undermine any credibility you might have had in one fell swoop. Get a grip.

The delusion that some women have that all other women will have experience of what they’ve gone through or empathy with it and that it’s some sort of sisterhood. Not all women will have had children. Not all women will have remotely painful periods. Not all women will have severe menopause symptoms. Female doctors can be just as dismissive if not worse than male ones.

YANBU. I had a terrible experience with a male gynae. I had to be called back for a procedure he was not able to carry out ( he “tried” but it was painful and upsetting). He was arrogant and unpleasant throughout the consultation and procedure. When I went back I found out they had no idea about the outcome of my original appointment, he had not updated my notes and it transpired that they “no longer used him as a locum” at the hospital. The woman I eventually saw could not have been nicer and more competent and was funnily enough, able to complete the procedure quickly and with just a little discomfort. I will insist on only female gynecologists from now on and wish I had listened to my instincts and refused to let him attempt to treat me in the first place. I agree with everything in your post OP.

You can't ban men from being gynaecologists. Patients should be allowed to ask to see a female one though and they should accommodate that wherever possible. There are a lot of reasons that it could be very difficult for some women to have a male one examine them.

Yes- nothing says feminism quite like explaining to women why their own experiences don't count.

🙄

I’ve had ivf and trust me the procedures you go through in ivf are very different and a lot briefer and less traumatic than with other gynie investigations as you get older. Frankly I’d have preferred a woman for that too anyway.

Male orthopaedic surgeons see women's vaginas when they do hip replacement surgery, A male dermatologist had to look at my vulva for a skin condition I had . Should they be banned too ?

I would rather have the best person for the job, than a specific gender.

So no, I wouldn't vote to get rid of roughly half of the best gynaecologists that we have. (Percentage may vary).