To think men should not be allowed to be gynaecologists

[CaragianettE]

Just that, really. Saw one last week. He was trying to be helpful, but I really really really don’t want to discuss ‘do you get clots’ ‘do you experience flooding’ ‘do you find intercourse painful’ with a strange man. Yes it would be awkward with a strange woman too, but at least I know she likely has some lived experience of what we are talking about. TBH I also question men’s motives for choosing this job, not just the licence to look at strange women’s vaginas, but I think there’s something deep in the male psyche that just loves laying down the law to women about their reproductive systems. It’s a job for a woman, and while I know men were allowed to train for it in the past, I think they should now be phased out.

Honestly I’ve always found men better at this job. Kinder and gentler compared to the women I’ve had when I’ve had intimate examinations down there.

I do agree that there should be women available however if that’s your personal preference but I’d actually ask for a man based on local experience.

How very rude! I hate some of the assumptions on this thread: that women who are happy to have a male (or either sex) gynaecologists are some how in thrall to men; that men (who aren't gay) could only be gynaecologists because they want to look at vulvas/vaginas all day (and honestly how stupid - I doubt for the vast majority of men feel that that is the most attractive part of a woman).

We need to stop seeing all men as the enemy. Many, many are at least semi-decent human beings, not animals who would rape or exploit at the merest opportunity. For those who genuinely think that I can only imagine how miserable your lives must be.

That's not what I'm suggesting, to be clear.

My suggestion is that in a situation where there are (more than) enough trainees, the ratio should be weighted in favour of females.

The first article relates to American medics as far as I can see. The second refers to sexism across the NHS of which I am sure there is plenty and which of course requires rooting out across the board.

As I said I think, unless you can show that women applicants are being turned down from this particular specialty, you may end up funnelling women medics in to a specialty they haven't necessarily chosen but have been allotted based on their sex.

So that is your response to the posters disagreeing with you on this thread? You purport to oppose misogynous men; but how contemptuous and dismissive of the women on here that post is.

And as for the idea that gynaecology is 'a job for a woman' because they supposedly have lived experience of the issues; that is just ridiculous for the reasons explained by posters above. And if we go back to the days when certain professions were closed to people of one gender, that will ultimately hurt women the most (as it always always does).

Yabu. I've had male gynaecologists and female ones. My overall experience has been better with the male ones, who have been more gentle than the female ones.

Not read the whole thread but you are being ridiculous. I've worked with a lot of gynaecologists over the years and the best ones surgically are nearly always men. Sure, request a woman if you want which is absolutely your right, but to say male ones shouldn't exist is absurd

Empathy through having the same body parts? Seriously? I just want someone who has the medical knowledge to do their job

Painting every man as dangerous and violent and thinking he’s suspect for wanting to treat women/children is ridiculous.

Of course it should be a choice for patients but given the delays in doing this, why shouldn’t men do it?

2 Children - Birth 1 Female Gyne and attending male Oby- follow up care female was brillant especially with a few problems 2nd birth male oby was crap had great midwife. I go private for all follow ups increasing frustration with male gyne but stayed loyal- he had done all pre pregnancy checks tests etc. and he was well qualified and I knew him ,Menopause kicks in and frustration increases- I move to a female and oh boy the difference in attitude, meds, support - I so wish I had done it sooner and not suffered for 4 years with every symptom under the sun !

I completely understand why some women, particularly those with a history of trauma, may strongly prefer or need a female gynaecologist. Services should try to accommodate that wherever possible.

However, if a patient is requesting a specific characteristic in their clinician- whether that's a particular sex, language, specialty interest, or individual doctor it's not unreasonable that this may sometimes involve a longer wait.

That's simply a consequence of having a smaller pool of clinicians to choose from.

The fact that some women choose to wait longer for a female gynaecologist doesn't mean male gynaecologists shouldn't be practising, nor does it tell us what the ideal workforce ratio should be.

You were ridiculously unreasonable in your original post but this comment (whatever you were trying to say here) made you look dumb. What on earth….?

I'm curious, are you against the idea of tipping the balance in favour of females, if it doesn't reduce the total number of gynaecologists? And are you in favour of mammographers being male?

Incidentally, several of the misconduct incidents I've linked happened with a female chaperone present.

That aside, the reason many women don't want a male gynae is because they don't want a male touching them intimately and invasively. Having a woman watching it happen doesn't help that.

It absolutely is ridiculous. You’re allowed to have a preference, nobody is disputing that. But to say men should be banned from the profession is a bloody stupid thing to suggest.

This is a "you" problem

My issue was with the pp saying that women shouldn't complain about longer waits.

I saw many female gynaecologists and honestly I never felt so dismissed, I was brushed off with its normal, you’ll be fine just live with it. There is nothing normal bleeding for 18 out of every 26 days a month with clots the size of apples, the blood loss causing me to become so anaemic I needed iron infusions. I had this for over 10 years, dismissed everytime, take the pill, have a coil, there is nothing wrong with you.

I saw a fantastic male one who took one look at my history, ordered the tests I needed and offered me an ablation or hysterectomy there and then, the decision was completely mine and he offered me so much reassurance. I got my diagnosis within weeks and the operation within a month after that.

So yes I do think men can do the job.

The desire to control women is not exclusively heterosexual. Some of the worst misogynists I’ve ever met were gay men.

Adam Kay’s book suggested both a very misogynistic mindset and also very sneery/snobbish attitude to many of his patients. The only sympathetic character was his poor hard done by self.

All that said @CaragianettE YANBU to want a woman but the problem could be better addressed by giving women an actual choice which we don’t have in the current UK health system.

Of course there’s sexism in the profession, if there wasn’t then the NHS would not be around 75% female.

I’ve seen a few gynaecologists and they’ve all been men. It’s a running joke as DH now always asks if it was a man and we muse on why there are so few women gynaes.

I don’t mind though, it’s just an interesting observation.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

I feel as though the discussion keeps shifting now and thats not a coincidence.

It started with claims about male gynaecologists themselves, then moved on to patient preferences, then workforce ratios, then sexism in medicine, then trauma, and now mammographers.

Those are all separate issues.

I completely accept that some women strongly prefer female gynaecologists, particularly if they have experienced trauma, and I agree that sexism in medicine should be tackled wherever it exists.

However, neither of those points demonstrates that male gynaecologists are unsuitable, nor do they support the original implication that men enter the specialty for inappropriate reasons or that they should be in "the minority".

The reason I keep returning to the study you posted is that it simply doesn't support the conclusions being drawn from it. It tells us about patient preferences. It doesn't tell us what the "ideal" workforce ratio is, and it certainly doesn't tell us anything about the motives or character of male gynaecologists.

It feels as though we've moved a long way from your original claims, which suggests those claims were harder to defend than the later points about patient choice and trauma and so its not surprising you keep bringing up new issues.

I agree with them, I dont think you have a right to complain about a longer wait if you are requiring your doctor to have specific characteristics such as being female

It is unreasonable that a woman is told “accept intimate contact from a man or go to the bottom of the list”.

Especially when the communication skills of many consultants’ teams are so piss poor. Just how much information is the random junior male gynae going to get from an anxious woman? That is relevant to the medical coutcomes.

Of course they’re allowed to be upset and can complain if they want to given those circumstances, and I see why having a female is important to them however it’s unreasonable to want to have men banned from a profession which would impact waiting times for all women. Tbh believe me if you need life saving gynae surgery and time is of the essence you won’t be bothered who carried out the procedure.

I’ve always had male gynae. It’s fine. 🤷‍♀️