to be seriously concerned about the illegal surveillance cameras and flags on lamp posts?

[Kije]

That's it, really. I live in a semi-rural area. No racial tensions locally, that I'm aware of, at all. The local small market town and surrounding roads are covered, and I do mean covered, in illegally posted flags, all over lamp posts - sometimes three deep. They come down (the local council sometimes stirs themselves to take them down) and are replaced within a few hours. It's been like this since late last summer.

And now the same charming people who are trying to intimidate what they like to call 'pathetic lefties' have put up dozens of surveillance cameras on the same lamp posts, aimed in all directions in a clear attempt to intimidate local people who'd like to take the flags down. The mob who do the flags have said on their own FB site, it's to 'protect their property' (eg the flags they've illegally stuck up lamp posts, it's essentially littering). The obvious take-home is, they think this is their town and they aim to create a chilling effect for anyone who dares to discuss this on local social media, or take the flags down again.

The flags are illegal: the cameras doubly so, I'd have thought, given privacy laws?? Or at least, I'm assuming surveillance cameras mounted on public property and aimed at pedestrians and drivers have to be done by a legitimate authority.

I look at what was happening in Belfast (and elsewhere) last night and honestly, I'm terrified for our country. We seem to be sliding into lawlessness and vigilantism, and blatant intimidation of anyone who speaks out against it.

It’s not illegal to film in public. I wouldn’t like it either though.

Well no, but I'm wondering if there's any specific privacy law about highways. When done without authorisation or by a proper authority.

It's not legal to tie random stuff to lamp posts though!

The sooner we have some shitty weather, the better. That'll vastly reduce the appeal of them getting together to smash shit up and scare people.

How high are the cameras? Could you reach them with one of those pump action weedkiller things filled with paint? Often the hose has a metal end to extend the reach.

People who think CCTV will stop things don't understand how poor most CCTV images are and also how little time the police have to go through hours of footage to investigate a minor crime

The mob who put up the flags and now the cameras are pretty unpleasant and the leaders have convictions for violent behaviour - assault, pub brawling, etc. I would not remotely want to run the risk of a run-in with any of them! The cameras must be about 3 or 4 metres up? High enough to make it a bit of a mission to get them down.

Look, I don't want to match flag vigilantism with anti-flag vigilantism! It's not legal, I want Highways or the local Council or the police to actually enforce the law here. When the local council do send out a crew to take som flags down, they tend to wear ski masks because they're often observed by the mob who put them up, intimidating them. It's frankly disgusting. And then the flags go back up again anyway, within hours or overnight.

I think you misunderstand my post. These aren't anti-criminal surveillance cameras put up by town council/police/local businesses - they're cameras put up by the thugs who are 'raising the colours' locally! They aim to intimidate anyone who tries to take them down.

I agree with your point though, that CCTV images and facial recognition are really not as powerful or reliable as most people think.

No, there isn’t.

The World Cup starts tomorrow. That’ll occupy them for a little while

Presumably the police and council know about the cameras? As a community you need to put the pressure on community leaders and police to sort this out. Get your MP involved.

They can take the cameras down. I guess they’re a bit tied by ‘community tensions’ though and don’t want to upset/offend the people who put them up?

It can't be legal to put cameras up in public places and leave them though? At the very least it's technically littering. Different to having it on your own property and even then I think people are advised not to film the neighbours gardens. Are any of the cameras at an angle they am an see into people's property OP?

Oh no, illegal flags!

Thoughts and prayers.

They probably don't work if that's any comfort. To be effective they need some solar power and a SIM card which costs money and while I agree it's unsettling, given you probably get videoed a 100 times walking to the shops I find it hard to get too bothered about personally.

The thing is the police etc., have a legitimate aim in using those cameras. These people don’t.

There’s 2 aspects to this:

1. the filming, which is perfectly legal, because nobody is entitled to privacy in public. The form this has taken is obviously different from news cameras or your average person filming for Snapchat but it’s still legal.
2. The mounting of the camera itself on council owned property. This isn’t an offence as such, but they can take it down. If it’s ’littering’ then so it putting up charity posters for example.

HTH

Good luck with this. Where my friend lives a drug dealer rocked up in a caravan, hooked his electricity up to a lamppost and dealt from there. The police and council were contacted and argued between themselves for weeks before anything was done.

And cameras? I don't like how much CCTV there is anyway but I would also be creeped out by a random group of people taking it upon themselves to monitor the street with their own surveillance system. I also don't like Meta glasses, and I don't like the trend for filming people going about their business and posting it online. All of which would creep me out.
I like flags. I think the Union Jack is a really nice design. But the mass of flags combined with cameras feels like some people marking their territory. It's not about unity.

Have you reported it to the police or the council? Surely this comes under Data Protection?

Well, putting up posters is technically littering. Leaving bulkier objects behind would be fly tipping.

There was a cctv operator in Edinburgh, I think, who watched a female getting taken down an alley, he ran out of his office (knowing he would be quicker than police) and prevented her from getting raped.

You may not be entitled to privacy in public but equally you can't just mount static cameras wherever you like.
There’s a world of difference between standing in the street filming someone with your phone and mounting a static camera up at lamppost. One is overt for a start.

Why "seriously concerned" OP?

I don't have time for Reform etc but these are just flags - bits of fabric - and CCTV is widespread anyway!

Why not just ignore them ?

Point 1, not quite. If you have a CCTV camera that can capture the public in a public space, you are bound by GDPR. So you need signage warning people and to have procedures to appropriately handle the data. I'd very much doubt they have either so could be subject to a penalty from the ICO.

A crime of removing a flag that shouldn't be there in the first place? Of course the police wouldn't bother. The thugs who put them up might though.